jlsoaz
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Re: Suggest rent me a Nissan gasoline burner for longer trip

Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:15 pm

RonDawg wrote:
jlsoaz wrote:That doesn't sound exactly right (as to the tax break not applying for other lessors) but I'll keep an open mind, I've never been entirely sure of how that break works for all of the entities leasing out the new vehicles.
Two senior posters have advised me of this, but Edmunds.com has this to say:
If a vehicle is being leased, the credit stays with the leasing company, which is the actual owner of the car or truck. In most cases, however, the tax credit has been factored into the cost of the lease, so the customer still benefits. Lease programs for the Chevrolet Volt and Nissan Leaf, for instance, include the $7,500 as a credit toward the down payment.
Source: http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/the ... edits.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nissan and GM, through their respective financing companies, have elected to pass all of the $7500 credit to the consumer. But not all lessors do, and IIRC Toyota does not do so for the RAV-4 EV for example.
Thanks Ron. What I was responding to was your statement:
RonDawg wrote: I suspect most Leafs leases are with NMAC, but that is mostly due to the the $7500 Federal tax break which (I have been told here) would not apply with other lessors.
As far as I know (and of course I could be wrong), all lessors get the credit.

As to the separate question of what portion of it they pass along, that is difficult to assess in an exact way, but I agree that not all lessors pass the full amount along (nor should we expect they all would). In fact, neither Nissan nor GM seemed to pass much (if any) along when they first started selling and leasing their vehicles, but (in my view) as time passed and they realized the vehicles weren't going to fly out the door, they realized (I think) that they had to put aside their inclinations to charge according to the notional MSRP that had the government money built into it, and instead provide good, and much more realistic, leasing terms.
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Elephanthead
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Re: Suggest rent me a Nissan gasoline burner for longer trip

Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:02 am

You are better off just using one of the rental car companies instead of having to deal with a dealer managing anything. Most rental companies will let you park your car for as long as you want while you drive away in your rental. If you are suggesting that Nissan should pay for 10 days rental a year for you then I wish you good luck with that! :lol:

jlsoaz
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Re: Suggest rent me a Nissan gasoline burner for longer trip

Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:28 pm

Elephanthead wrote:You are better off just using one of the rental car companies instead of having to deal with a dealer managing anything. Most rental companies will let you park your car for as long as you want while you drive away in your rental. If you are suggesting that Nissan should pay for 10 days rental a year for you then I wish you good luck with that! :lol:
Hi Elephanthead - I'm not sure what gave you the idea that I was suggesting that Nissan should pay for 10 days of rental a year for me. I'm quite happy to pay for a rental if I need it, but if it's going to be something that I do a lot (such as if I am going to ditch my ownership of a hydrocarbon-powered vehicle) then it would help if Nissan could help me secure some sort of discount over time. If my commitment is to renting Nissan vehicles, then that is something in it for them.

It turns out that Nissan has had an incentive program going (due to expire March 31) called the "Go The Distance" program where a Nissan Leaf purchaser or lessee would have the right to 10 free days of rental (not per year) from certain Leaf dealers. It's not something I qualify for, I'm not upset about it, and hopefully it won't serve as too much of a distraction from my suggestion(s) which are somewhat in-line with that program. However, I am not suggesting some overly generous rental program, only perhaps some moderate discount program for Leaf drivers who are frequent renters in lieu of owning a separate ICV.

I think there are pros and cons as to going through a rental agency to swap my Leaf out for awhile for another vehicle. In my particular case, since the dealership is about 4-5 hours away by Leaf, including recharge time, I'd be much more inclined to stop at the airport (1 hour by Leaf) and I also think there are other reasons to want to go through a rental agency, such as their hours of operation in some locations and experience in the business.

I think my suggestion stems from mulling over the plight or situation of those who simply have to have a longer range vehicle for some purposes. In those cases, depending on the frequency of the need, we can either retain ownership of a second vehicle, lease or buy a second vehicle from Nissan (a separate idea they might consider), rent a vehicle at those times, or perhaps there are other possibilities. Looking at this from Nissan's point of view, they are not a charity, but do have an interest in helping their Leaf customers to overcome this hurdle of needing longer range sometimes. I think they showed that they recognize this issue in their Go The Distance program. I'm not sure the exact terms of the program are critical to repeat, I am mentioning it because it helps show they are aware of the issue.
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will buy 150+ mile BEV when they become less expensive on used market
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tallgirl
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Re: Suggest rent me a Nissan gasoline burner for longer trip

Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:44 pm

jlsoaz wrote:As to the separate question of what portion of it they pass along, that is difficult to assess in an exact way, but I agree that not all lessors pass the full amount along (nor should we expect they all would). In fact, neither Nissan nor GM seemed to pass much (if any) along when they first started selling and leasing their vehicles, but (in my view) as time passed and they realized the vehicles weren't going to fly out the door, they realized (I think) that they had to put aside their inclinations to charge according to the notional MSRP that had the government money built into it, and instead provide good, and much more realistic, leasing terms.
I'm not sure they can legally NOT pass it along. The residual value of a Leaf reflects the credit because that's what a Leaf is worth -- the MSRP, minus the credit, depreciated in the usual manner. Try selling a Leaf and asking for more than that amount by saying "I didn't get the credit." That's not going to go very far.

jlsoaz
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Re: Suggest rent me a Nissan gasoline burner for longer trip

Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:11 pm

Here's a good example of what I think Nissan might consider doing. Some Leaf drivers (hard to say how many) might this this useful, and in some cases, money-saving.

http://www.slashgear.com/california-exc ... -14277774/
California-exclusive 2013 Fiat 500e is priced at $32,500
Brian Sin, Apr 14th 2013

...Fiat will offer its customers the “Fiat 500e Pass Program”, which allows 500e owners to choose an alternative car to use for up to 12 days each year. The owners will be able to choose from select cars offered by Enterprise Holdings, including the Fiat 500s, the Dodge Dart, the Chrysler 200, or bigger vehicles like a minivan or a pickup truck. The Fiat 500e Pass Program is only available for the first 3 years after you purchase your 500e....
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hyperlexis
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Re: Suggest rent me a Nissan gasoline burner for longer trip

Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:17 am

They should simply do what Fiat has offered -- buy an EV, and Nissan will give you X days of free rentals per year from Nissan rental cars (they do have a US dealer-based rental service like Toyota, Ford and other manufacturers).

That would definitely take some of the anxiety about long trips out of EV ownership and should help Leaf sales.

jlsoaz
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Re: Suggest rent me a Nissan gasoline burner for longer trip

Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:18 am

hyperlexis wrote:They should simply do what Fiat has offered -- buy an EV, and Nissan will give you X days of free rentals per year from Nissan rental cars (they do have a US dealer-based rental service like Toyota, Ford and other manufacturers).

That would definitely take some of the anxiety about long trips out of EV ownership and should help Leaf sales.
I also think they should make something along the lines of this offer. They actually did have a little known program along these lines for Leaf purchases (made prior to March 31 2013?), but apparently I don't have access to it (my dealer doesn't rent Nissans). Other people here however have benefited, which is great to see. Did they continue the program?

When the analysis is done over many drivers, I wonder as to the extent of the potential of such a program to benefit drivers. In my case, I think maybe it would save me a lot of money, and make my Leaf ownership better. It might even reduce my inclination to consider a PHEV lease or purchase when my Leaf lease is up in 2016. Were I to have convenient and genuinely affordable access to a rented well-maintained gasoline burner, I could gladly sell my gasoline burner and save myself money (maintenance, insurance on a car I seldom use, registration, the spot in my garage, etc.). Maybe I could get access already, and maybe it would be more affordable than I realize, but it seems like every time I rent a car (not often) I end up spending around $110 per day or more on it (including everything, such as insurance, taxes, fees, gasoline, etc.). If Nissan could help me get this down to $50 per day for 10 or 20 or 30 or 40 days per year, that would help me consider the rental and getting rid of the gasoline burner.
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will buy 150+ mile BEV when they become less expensive on used market
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DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Suggest rent me a Nissan gasoline burner for longer trip

Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:00 am

this is something that Nissan is investigating at the corporate level. the various local programs were very well received but inconsistent in their application even within the same geographical area.

there is a bit of a logistical challenge to find a rental agency that can guarantee availability all the time (during slack times its easy. 3 day holiday weekends, not so much) nationwide.
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jlsoaz
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Re: Suggest rent me a Nissan gasoline burner for longer trip

Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:20 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:this is something that Nissan is investigating at the corporate level. the various local programs were very well received but inconsistent in their application even within the same geographical area.

there is a bit of a logistical challenge to find a rental agency that can guarantee availability all the time (during slack times its easy. 3 day holiday weekends, not so much) nationwide.
Thanks Dave, really good to have this information.

Just for my situation, I hope they move on this sooner rather than later. I will probably not want to wait for three more years of my lease to do something about my gasoline burner (heck, part of it is that it's hard to drive a good new car like a Leaf and then be satisfied stepping into a 16 year old car).

Also (again, just for my own expression of what I want): I don't at all need or expect free rentals, but I would like a substantial break on total rental costs, especially if I need to rent a lot. All of this would help me cut the cord on owning a gasoline-burner and it would potentially be win-win for Nissan in that I could then be driving and paying to drive a Nissan gasoline-burner some days out of the year.
Former lessee 2012 SL
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2017-October: bght 2013 Volt
will buy 150+ mile BEV when they become less expensive on used market
opinions expressed are my own

Phoenix
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Re: Suggest rent me a Nissan gasoline burner for longer trip

Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:13 pm

jlsoaz: Are there other EVs in your neighborhood/vicinity? If so, find other EV owners to share the use and cost of an ICE for longer trips. Form an LLC or nonprofit to buy/own the designated ICE. Split the cost of ownership (insurance, title and registration) with your small group of users. One ICE (instead of 2-4) sits around until someone amongst your group needs to use it.

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