jlsoaz
Posts: 775
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:57 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Oct 2012
Leaf Number: 24218
Location: Southern Arizona, USA

Suggest rent me a Nissan gasoline burner for longer trips

Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:38 pm

Essentially, I'd like to suggest that Nissan make it easier for me periodically to park my Leaf at a rental agency and efficiently (minimum of time and money) drive out with a Nissan rental, trusting that my Leaf would be parked for a few hours or days without any problems, and allowed Level I or II charging, as possible.

Such an arrangement would allow me to benefit in that:

- I could get rid of my gasoline burner that I own and have to tend to for maintenance and insurance.
- It would allow for "hybrid trips" (where I go, say, to the airport rental in my EV, and then continue on in a gasoline burner). Such trips would be slower than a pure gasoline trip, but would be much faster than a laborious lengthy multi-charging trip.
- I could perhaps use a highly efficient Nissan non-pluggable hybrid.
- If things are arranged in a smart way with Nissan, I might be able to avoid the recurring hassle and cost of rental-agency insurance and other issues, where they repeatedly scare me into buying more insurance. Since Nissan knows that I pay for insurance on my Leaf, this could be applied to my airport rental without the usual scare tactics, particularly if it's by mutually-agreed arrangement between Nissan and a rental agency.

This might benefit Nissan in that

- If the rental is a Nissan,
- it might help a few Leaf lessees and owners spend less on having to maintain a second car.
- it would increase the number of "Nissan miles" traveled by some of us.
- it might be a new and perhaps better, and efficient, way for some of us to deal with range issues on inter-city travel.

I guess this could all be done through Nissan dealerships instead of (say) airport-based rental agencies. There are pros and cons to this including a con that rental agencies may be better equipped efficiently to handle and process the needs of folks driving in at all hours and needing to do a quick car-swap. (I guess rather than battery swapping, this is about car-swapping).

This is a suggestion that I guess falls under the heading of "how Nissan could make more money from me". Nissan or this group may already have dealt with the topic and be ahead of me, but I searched for a few minutes in the group and don't see anything, so I am starting the topic. (A search on the word "rental" for example, seems to bring up threads pertaining to renting out of Nissan Leafs).

I'm not entirely sure how to frame this suggestion since it could be handled in other ways that have little to do with Nissan. For example, a different way to approach this idea might be to suggest it to Hertz or Avis or the like and say: "I suggest that you offer a special deal for EV drivers that if they pull into one of your agencies with their EV seeking a gasoline rental, you'll offer them a reasonable deal on a vehicle rental, not give them a raw deal on insurance and other hassles, and have their vehicle recharged and in a covered lot for them when they get back". I doubt they'd go for not giving EV drivers a raw deal on insurance and other rental costs, but overall maybe one or more of them might at least go for offering a formalized deal.

If this idea were to be taken up by rental agencies, then the focus I guess would shift away from renting Nissan gasoline-burners, though considering the demographic they might want to focus on offering highly-efficient gasoline burners (including Chevy Volt, Nissan and Toyota Hybrids, etc.) They could also offer I guess Nissan Leafs and other EVs for rent if a driver for their own reasons wanted to avoid waiting for a recharge and simply wanted to use the rental agency as an efficient EV car-swap for a longer trip. This seems a bit much as we are transitioning to more and more deployment of Quick-charge stations where the speed of quick-charging is better than the speed of going through a rental agency process, but many of us still have no access to quick-charging along our routes.

I'd be surprised if some Leaf drivers hadn't informally gone ahead and enacted this simply by using local rental agencies (perhaps talking to them about charging while away) or by arrangement with Nissan dealerships, but I'm suggesting that
A) Nissan might look into it
B) Rental agencies might look into formalizing it.
Last edited by jlsoaz on Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Former lessee 2012 SL
http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/ba ... hp?vid=229
2017-October: bght 2013 Volt
will buy 150+ mile BEV when they become less expensive on used market
opinions expressed are my own

RonDawg
Posts: 3039
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:46 am
Delivery Date: 11 Jan 2013
Leaf Number: 027089
Location: SoCal

Re: Suggest rent me a Nissan gasoline burner for longer trip

Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:52 pm

I don't know about your area, but many (most?) dealers here in California and perhaps elsewhere already have a program in which Leaf buyers got 10 free days' worth of car rentals from the dealership's own rental fleet of various Nissan models. I have yet to use mine, but several here have already used theirs.

Nissan currently does not have a "non-pluggable" hybrid, or any sort of hybrid, in the US. The Altima hybrid was discontinued when the current generation Altima was introduced.

As add-on insurance is a cash cow for rental agencies, I don't know if the pressure to buy the coverage will ever go away, even if Nissan has a mutual agreement program. It's no different than being asked to buy an extended warranty on some item you just bought. Most comp/collision policies are transferable to temporary rentals, but as usual check with your insurance company. Most credit cards also offer some form of insurance when you use their card to reserve and pay for the rental; most are excess (meaning whatever your insurance won't pay, such as deductibles) but a few including American Express offer additional primary coverage for an extra fee.
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar at 34 months/26,435 miles. Lease returned 2 months later. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F.
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL.

cwerdna
Posts: 10773
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Suggest rent me a Nissan gasoline burner for longer trip

Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:56 pm

RonDawg wrote:I don't know about your area, but many (most?) dealers here in California and perhaps elsewhere already have a program in which Leaf buyers got 10 free days' worth of car rentals from the dealership's own rental fleet of various Nissan models. I have yet to use mine, but several here have already used theirs.

Nissan currently does not have a "non-pluggable" hybrid, or any sort of hybrid, in the US. The Altima hybrid was discontinued when the current generation Altima was introduced.
Yeah, there was discussion about the One2One program at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=11160" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and in a few threads linked from there. I don't know its current status, validity depending on dealer, etc.

Yeah, Nissan currently doesn't currently sell a Nissan-branded hybrid in the US after they axed the NAH. There is currently the Infiniti M-hybrid (http://www.infinitiusa.com/m/hybrid/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). I test drove it at Pebble Beach Concours.

Not sure if it's still being sold in Japan (and elsewhere?) as the Nissan Fuga Hybrid. I first saw it at Tokyo Motor Show in 09.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

jlsoaz
Posts: 775
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:57 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Oct 2012
Leaf Number: 24218
Location: Southern Arizona, USA

Re: Suggest rent me a Nissan gasoline burner for longer trip

Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:05 pm

cwerdna wrote:
RonDawg wrote:I don't know about your area, but many (most?) dealers here in California and perhaps elsewhere already have a program in which Leaf buyers got 10 free days' worth of car rentals from the dealership's own rental fleet of various Nissan models. I have yet to use mine, but several here have already used theirs.

Nissan currently does not have a "non-pluggable" hybrid, or any sort of hybrid, in the US. The Altima hybrid was discontinued when the current generation Altima was introduced.
Yeah, there was discussion about the One2One program at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=11160" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and in a few threads linked from there. I don't know its current status, validity depending on dealer, etc.

Yeah, Nissan currently doesn't currently sell a Nissan-branded hybrid in the US after they axed the NAH. There is currently the Infiniti M-hybrid (http://www.infinitiusa.com/m/hybrid/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). I test drove it at Pebble Beach Concours.

Not sure if it's still being sold in Japan (and elsewhere?) as the Nissan Fuga Hybrid. I first saw it at Tokyo Motor Show in 09.
Thanks for the responses, will read more about this one2one program later, sounds indeed like Nissan is well ahead of me on that. Ironically, it's hard for me to make use of it efficiently since getting to my dealer requires at least one public charge, but my Nissan dealer has a Ford dealer affiliate near me, so maybe some sort of deal could be struck and I can finally get rid of the gasoline burner I own.

With respect to the Altima Hybrid and other Nissan hybrids, I think non-pluggable hybrids (and perhaps pluggable hybrids?) are part of Nissan's focus going forward. Just a quick google indicates that another Altima HEV is or was planned:

http://editorial.autos.msn.com/blogs/au ... 8e25fec6cd
Nissan to sell 15 hybrids by 2016; Altima Hybrid likely to return
By Exhaust Notes Dec 13, 2012 3:17PM
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/al ... ew-6602143
November 29, 2011 2:00 PM
2014 Nissan Altima Hybrid Tech Preview
The Nissan Altima is getting an overhaul for 2013, and something else for 2014: a hybrid model featuring an all-new Nissan powertrain. We got a first look at the new tech in Tokyo.
By Ben Stewart
With respect to the raw deals accorded us in various aspects of vehicle insurance, including rental-related insurance purchases, I stand by my suggestion. If Nissan and a national rental agency discuss this hard topic, maybe they could tackle it rather than leaving us to get a raw deal. However, if this all goes back to a variant of the one2one program, then maybe that pretty much satisfies the whole matter. I'll have to read more to better understand if going through a dealership helps address the insurance question.
Last edited by jlsoaz on Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Former lessee 2012 SL
http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/ba ... hp?vid=229
2017-October: bght 2013 Volt
will buy 150+ mile BEV when they become less expensive on used market
opinions expressed are my own

RonDawg
Posts: 3039
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:46 am
Delivery Date: 11 Jan 2013
Leaf Number: 027089
Location: SoCal

Re: Suggest rent me a Nissan gasoline burner for longer trip

Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:10 pm

cwerdna wrote:Yeah, there was discussion about the One2One program at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=11160" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and in a few threads linked from there. I don't know its current status, validity depending on dealer, etc.

Yeah, Nissan currently doesn't currently sell a Nissan-branded hybrid in the US after they axed the NAH. There is currently the Infiniti M-hybrid (http://www.infinitiusa.com/m/hybrid/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). I test drove it at Pebble Beach Concours.

Not sure if it's still being sold in Japan (and elsewhere?) as the Nissan Fuga Hybrid. I first saw it at Tokyo Motor Show in 09.
I never realized that Infiniti had a hybrid car. I don't think you'll see too many of those in rental fleets though.
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar at 34 months/26,435 miles. Lease returned 2 months later. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F.
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL.

RonDawg
Posts: 3039
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:46 am
Delivery Date: 11 Jan 2013
Leaf Number: 027089
Location: SoCal

Re: Suggest rent me a Nissan gasoline burner for longer trip

Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:18 pm

jlsoaz wrote:With respect to the raw deals accorded us in various aspects of vehicle insurance, including rental-related insurance purchases, I stand by my suggestion. If Nissan and a national rental agency discuss this hard topic, maybe they could tackle it rather than leaving us to get a raw deal.
I don't think what you're asking for is possible. I've never tried to rent a car through a Nissan dealership so I don't know how they handle it, but I don't think an agreement between Nissan and a rental car agency is ever going to address the latter pushing you to buy the added insurance. As I said before, those things are cash cows for the rental car agency, and whatever added business Nissan is going to steer their way probably isn't going to offset the loss of that revenue.

Plus there are people who have a legitimate need for that insurance. People who normally drive a beater and only carry their state's minimum liability insurance, for example. Or foreign tourists whose insurance doesn't cover them here in the US. Or businesspeople who don't want to worry about whose insurance will pay for any damage and whose companies are paying for it anyway so what do they care?

Nissan and the dealership can't address the insurance question because it's not for them to address, short of including it on every rental which will just drive the price up for everybody. Whether or not your primary insurance covers you is up to the company that wrote your policy. Whether or not your credit card issuer covers you is up to them as well.

I've rented numerous cars over the years, and the only company that I use that even remotely gives me a hard sell on the add-on insurance is Enterprise. When asked I politely tell them I am declining the insurance and initial where necessary. I am a Hertz Gold member and my profile with them automatically declines the insurance.
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar at 34 months/26,435 miles. Lease returned 2 months later. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F.
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL.

jlsoaz
Posts: 775
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:57 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Oct 2012
Leaf Number: 24218
Location: Southern Arizona, USA

Re: Suggest rent me a Nissan gasoline burner for longer trip

Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:30 pm

RonDawg wrote:
jlsoaz wrote:With respect to the raw deals accorded us in various aspects of vehicle insurance, including rental-related insurance purchases, I stand by my suggestion. If Nissan and a national rental agency discuss this hard topic, maybe they could tackle it rather than leaving us to get a raw deal.
I don't think what you're asking for is possible. I've never tried to rent a car through a Nissan dealership so I don't know how they handle it, but I don't think an agreement between Nissan and a rental car agency is ever going to address the latter pushing you to buy the added insurance. As I said before, those things are cash cows for the rental car agency, and whatever added business Nissan is going to steer their way probably isn't going to offset the loss of that revenue.

Plus there are people who have a legitimate need for that insurance. People who normally drive a beater and only carry their state's minimum liability insurance, for example. Or foreign tourists whose insurance doesn't cover them here in the US. Or businesspeople who don't want to worry about whose insurance will pay for any damage and whose companies are paying for it anyway so what do they care?
[....]
Hi Ron:
The examples you cite all are not to the point of any potential program specific to Leaf drivers, particularly Leaf lessees. As far as I know (could be wrong) in the case of all Leaf lessees, all such vehicles are owned by NMAC (i.e.: Nissan) and they all are guaranteed to have a robust amount of insurance. So, the conversation [between agency and driver] about rental agency suggested added insurance needn't take place, or at least not as much as usual (except I suppose under unusual circumstances, such as renting a Porsche).
Former lessee 2012 SL
http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/ba ... hp?vid=229
2017-October: bght 2013 Volt
will buy 150+ mile BEV when they become less expensive on used market
opinions expressed are my own

RonDawg
Posts: 3039
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:46 am
Delivery Date: 11 Jan 2013
Leaf Number: 027089
Location: SoCal

Re: Suggest rent me a Nissan gasoline burner for longer trip

Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:39 pm

The examples you cite all are not to the point of any potential program specific to Leaf drivers, particularly Leaf lessees. As far as I know (could be wrong) in the case of all Leaf lessees, all such vehicles are owned by NMAC (i.e.: Nissan) and they all are guaranteed to have a robust amount of insurance. So, the conversation [between agency and driver] about rental agency suggested added insurance needn't take place, or at least not as much as usual (except I suppose under unusual circumstances, such as renting a Porsche).
I suspect most Leafs leases are with NMAC, but that is mostly due to the the $7500 Federal tax break which (I have been told here) would not apply with other lessors. But that isn't necessarily the case with any other car.

Even if you have your insurance company's most expensive insurance, there is no guarantee that it is transferable to any other car. Most will, but not all; I've come across a few that specifically cover you only for the car(s) listed on the policy in regards to comp/collision. That's why Nissan just can't say "Just assume this Leaf owner/lessee has good insurance that will cover rental cars" because that is not guaranteed.

When I signed my lease agreement, I only promised to have sufficient insurance to cover any comprehensive and collision losses for the car, with a maximum $1000 deductible. It said nothing about the transferability of said coverage to other vehicles, in particular rentals.
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar at 34 months/26,435 miles. Lease returned 2 months later. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F.
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL.

jlsoaz
Posts: 775
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:57 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Oct 2012
Leaf Number: 24218
Location: Southern Arizona, USA

Re: Suggest rent me a Nissan gasoline burner for longer trip

Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:48 pm

RonDawg wrote:
The examples you cite all are not to the point of any potential program specific to Leaf drivers, particularly Leaf lessees. As far as I know (could be wrong) in the case of all Leaf lessees, all such vehicles are owned by NMAC (i.e.: Nissan) and they all are guaranteed to have a robust amount of insurance. So, the conversation [between agency and driver] about rental agency suggested added insurance needn't take place, or at least not as much as usual (except I suppose under unusual circumstances, such as renting a Porsche).
I suspect most Leafs leases are with NMAC, but that is mostly due to the the $7500 Federal tax break which (I have been told here) would not apply with other lessors.
That doesn't sound exactly right (as to the tax break not applying for other lessors) but I'll keep an open mind, I've never been entirely sure of how that break works for all of the entities leasing out the new vehicles.
RonDawg wrote:But that isn't necessarily the case with any other car.

Even if you have your insurance company's most expensive insurance, there is no guarantee that it is transferable to any other car. Most will, but not all; I've come across a few that specifically cover you only for the car(s) listed on the policy in regards to comp/collision. That's why Nissan just can't say "Just assume this Leaf owner/lessee has good insurance that will cover rental cars" because that is not guaranteed.

When I signed my lease agreement, I only promised to have sufficient insurance to cover any comprehensive and collision losses for the car, with a maximum $1000 deductible. It said nothing about the transferability of said coverage to other vehicles, in particular rentals.
I see, thanks for the information.
Former lessee 2012 SL
http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/ba ... hp?vid=229
2017-October: bght 2013 Volt
will buy 150+ mile BEV when they become less expensive on used market
opinions expressed are my own

RonDawg
Posts: 3039
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:46 am
Delivery Date: 11 Jan 2013
Leaf Number: 027089
Location: SoCal

Re: Suggest rent me a Nissan gasoline burner for longer trip

Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:11 pm

jlsoaz wrote:That doesn't sound exactly right (as to the tax break not applying for other lessors) but I'll keep an open mind, I've never been entirely sure of how that break works for all of the entities leasing out the new vehicles.
Two senior posters have advised me of this, but Edmunds.com has this to say:
If a vehicle is being leased, the credit stays with the leasing company, which is the actual owner of the car or truck. In most cases, however, the tax credit has been factored into the cost of the lease, so the customer still benefits. Lease programs for the Chevrolet Volt and Nissan Leaf, for instance, include the $7,500 as a credit toward the down payment.
Source: http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/the ... edits.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nissan and GM, through their respective financing companies, have elected to pass all of the $7500 credit to the consumer. But not all lessors do, and IIRC Toyota does not do so for the RAV-4 EV for example.
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar at 34 months/26,435 miles. Lease returned 2 months later. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F.
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL.

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