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Boomer23

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Joined
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I'm convinced that we need to have separate threads for the BMW i3 and the i8. They are very different cars and different technologies and we are going to be getting a lot of information on both of them in the coming year and beyond. Those who are keenly interested will want specific threads that focus on both of these cars independently.

Here is the first article that has anything technical about the i8 that I have seen. According to the author, BMW is convinced that the GM Volt's design is the best one to emulate for a performance PHEV. So they hired away one of GM's chief Volt engineers to help design the i8 drive train. That being known, it is less than surprising that parts of the i8 drive train will resemble those in the Volt.

This article may have quite a bit of speculation in it, but it is the first one that I've seen that looks behind the flash and hype to tell us something about the car's details.

http://www.thestreet.com/story/11451833/1/how-the-chevy-volt-became-a-bmw.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
Actually, BMW has some details now posted on its own i8 site.

The drive train...
combines the modified electric drive system from the BMW i3 Concept – fitted over its front axle – with a high-performance three-cylinder combustion engine producing 164 kW/220 hp and 300 Nm (221 lb-ft) at the rear.

http://www.bmw-i.com/en_ww/bmw-i8/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
KJD said:
Nice looking car for a hybrid. :) What is the target price range of this vehicle ?

Assume over $100k. I've read that this model will top BMW's range and the price will reflect it, since it includes BMW's top level technologies of carbon fiber construction, electric drive and performance-oriented ICE drivetrain.
 
Boomer23 said:
This article may have quite a bit of speculation in it, but it is the first one that I've seen that looks behind the flash and hype to tell us something about the car's details.

http://www.thestreet.com/story/11451833/1/how-the-chevy-volt-became-a-bmw.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sorry, that story makes little or no sense. BMW doesn't need a "project manager" (i.e. a non-technical guy) from GM to teach them how to do a PHEV. It is not rocket science. Moreover - you can't hire a person from GM & create a drivetrain that looks like a GM drive-train. That would be asking for trouble in the courts.

The first modern PHEVs were created for the defence forces. Fisker got the idea from one of those creators. Volt didn't come up with the "idea" of a PHEV - which is essentially what the author "thinks". He also "thinks" the sun gears were invented by GM - it was invented many decades ago by George Gleb et al (http://www.c-maxenergi.com/2011/02/george-gelb-planetary-gear-hybrid-drive.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;).
 
More at: http://www.bmwblog.com/2012/03/13/the-bmw-volt/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
Leaked photos of an i8 Spyder concept ahead of the New York Show next week. This concept has solid doors, where the original concept had clear doors. Stay tuned to the blogs for more about this Spyder to see what BMW plans for production.

http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/2012/03/2012-new-york-auto-show-bmw-i8-spyder-concept-leaked.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
evnow said:
Boomer23 said:
This article may have quite a bit of speculation in it, but it is the first one that I've seen that looks behind the flash and hype to tell us something about the car's details.

http://www.thestreet.com/story/11451833/1/how-the-chevy-volt-became-a-bmw.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sorry, that story makes little or no sense. BMW doesn't need a "project manager" (i.e. a non-technical guy) from GM to teach them how to do a PHEV. It is not rocket science. Moreover - you can't hire a person from GM & create a drivetrain that looks like a GM drive-train. That would be asking for trouble in the courts.

The first modern PHEVs were created for the defence forces. Fisker got the idea from one of those creators. Volt didn't come up with the "idea" of a PHEV - which is essentially what the author "thinks". He also "thinks" the sun gears were invented by GM - it was invented many decades ago by George Gleb et al (http://www.c-maxenergi.com/2011/02/george-gelb-planetary-gear-hybrid-drive.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;).

The guy they hired was the Volt's chief engineer. So he was party to most of the important decision made during its development. Having this knowledge could be a big advantage.

In regards to the Volt not being rocket science, It has more software than a fighter plane, see link:

http://www.eetimes.com/discussion/-include/4215057/Ten-million-lines-in-29-months--model-driven-development-on-the-Chevy-Volt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

“I thought of fighter aircraft as complex software projects at four to six million lines of code,” Selfe related. “But the Volt has ten million lines. "
 
DER SPIEGEL Online, a German publication similar to the Time Magazine, is running a story on the i8 ahead of the NY Auto Show. They have a nice pictorial to go along with it:


Click to open
 
evnow said:
Sorry, that story makes little or no sense. BMW doesn't need a "project manager" (i.e. a non-technical guy) from GM to teach them how to do a PHEV. It is not rocket science. Moreover - you can't hire a person from GM & create a drivetrain that looks like a GM drive-train. That would be asking for trouble in the courts.
You haven't understood the article. The article isn't contending that GM invented the planetary gearset, much less the sun gear. It's pointing out that the basic architecture of the motors and drive train mimic that of the Volt. Specifically the article points out how the online orientation of the engine, generator, and traction motor (which is unique to the Volt), combined with locating the battery in the center of the car, makes the architecture of the i8 more or less identical to that of the Volt's. You're also mistaken about the role Frank Weber plays. He's the head technical person not the project manager. IOW he's the guy who decides on the architecture.

We'll see how much else is borrowed from the Volt. If BMW also uses a planetary gearset then we may have some interesting legal issues. But keep in mind that BMW was a partner with GM on the two-mode system, and the Voltec is a very clever derivative of two-mode. Plus BMW may have come up with some interesting technology of its own. So maybe there are licensing possibilities we don't know about. (Not saying there are just pointing out that there may be).

The Voltec drivetrain is a technological tour de force, providing better performance and more efficiency. Compared to this, the single reduction gear in the Leaf is primitive. From a marketing perspective BMW will have trouble using a single reduction gear because the performance won't be the "zoom-zoom" it needs as a brand. It has tried to address this limitation on the i3 by making the car small and light. That helps somewhat but if it uses a single reduction gear you'll see the same acceleration fade you see on the Leaf. No idea if that's the case but probably so given the electronically limited 93 MPH speed.
 
BimmerPost just published a few videos on YouTube:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wJ_B9JbMZU[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCy0gXip4sE[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mlMTOghywE[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9WGXVWOv00[/youtube]
 
surfingslovak said:
BimmerPost just published a few videos on YouTube:
So how long will it take you to recover the extra expense of this car through lower fuel costs? :roll:
 
Its not about the lower fuel costs, but about looking cool while saving the planet :)

You had all the admiring glances while driving your Leaf and then an I8 goes by.. oh the horror!
I think Nissan made a mistake by not offering a green paint option on the Leaf, a nice bright metallic green.
 
Artist conception drawings of what the production version of the i8 might possibly look like.

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/04/17/is-this-what-the-production-bmw-i8-will-look-like/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
TomT said:
Tesla proved, with the Roadster, that there is a market for such a car, albeit a smaller one... However, it also has to have a much greater range, like the Roadster, to sell at that price level I believe...
I don't see the Roadster comparison. It's an EREV not a BEV and it's a practical sedan not an impractical two seat roadster. The i8 should compete with the BMW 7 series or the MB S class sedans. I wouldn't spend that much for a car but I'd rather have the i8 -- better ride and not a boat.
 
Good update on the i-8 at the link below.

CNBC this morning was in (almost) all Tesla-all-the-time mode earlier this AM, so I must have heard the clip of Elon laughing at the BMW i3 about four times already.

I have no clue what determines popular trends in conspicuous consumption, so a have no idea whether the I-8 may turn out to be just as funny to Elon, or not.

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2013/08/bmw-i8-specs/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

While the supercar stalwarts are busy making hybrid hypercars, BMW is taking a different tact: they’re creating a gas-electric hybrid that’s out to redefine the sports car, combining massive MPGs with Porsche performance.

Following the unveiling the all-electric i3 — the first model born out of BMW’s new i brand — the automaker has finally released a shed load of information on the real halo vehicle for the i marque: the i8.

It’s a 2+2 sports car that’s about the same size as the automaker’s Z4 coupe...

...you’ve got 362 hp and 420 lb-ft of torque in full-on attack mode (aka Sport). And that makes the i8 all wheel drive, with the front-mounted electric motor able to manipulate wheel speed on-the-fly for maximum grip. The dash from zero to 60 mph is good for a claimed 4.5 seconds and the i8 is electronically limited to a top speed of 155 mph.

But to achieve those numbers, it’s not just about harnessing brute force — it’s about keeping weight in check. And in the right places.

Mounted to the Drive module is the “Life” module, which, similar to the i3, is made of carbon fiber reinforced plastic. That reduces the passenger compartment’s weight by 50 percent over steel or 30 percent over aluminum, all while providing the same level of protection and helping to contribute to that optimal 50:50 front-to-rear weight distribution...

We’ll be seeing the i8 in the buff and sans camouflage next month at the Frankfurt Motor Show, and expect BMW dealers to start taking your deposits early next year before it arrives in late 2014.
 
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