KJD
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Re: Chevrolet to Produce Spark EV All-Electric Vehicle

Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:03 am

Why in the world is GM the biggest buyer of ZEV credits ?
http://insideevs.com/tesla-leads-seller ... s-a-buyer/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

One would think that GM should be a SELLER of ZEV credits if they were serious about the Spark EV. How about selling this car in all 50 states instead of just 2.
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TonyWilliams
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Re: Chevrolet to Produce Spark EV All-Electric Vehicle

Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:39 am

KJD wrote:Why in the world is GM the biggest buyer of ZEV credits ?
http://insideevs.com/tesla-leads-seller ... s-a-buyer/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

One would think that GM should be a SELLER of ZEV credits if they were serious about the Spark EV. How about selling this car in all 50 states instead of just 2.
Selling in all 50 states does NOT give them more credits. They would likely get ZERO credits for every car sold in non-CARB states.

Besides the few hundred Spark EVs sold in California and fellow CARB state Oregon, GM does not have another ZEV. That's why they must buy.

GRA
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Re: Chevrolet to Produce Spark EV All-Electric Vehicle

Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:07 pm

Presumably, now that they've got the Spark EV they won't need to buy credits from here on out. It will be interesting to see just how big a sales spike there is once the CCS-equipped cars are available, because I imagine there are many people holding off for them.
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TonyWilliams
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Re: Chevrolet to Produce Spark EV All-Electric Vehicle

Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:00 pm

GRA wrote:Presumably, now that they've got the Spark EV they won't need to buy credits from here on out. It will be interesting to see just how big a sales spike there is once the CCS-equipped cars are available, because I imagine there are many people holding off for them.
That's what every thought when Honda lowered the price of the Fit EV. But, no, Honda kept exactly the same production rate, because they only intend to sell 1000 in three years, 2012-2014.

I believe the Spark EV will be handled exactly the same way. Frankenplug or not, production will plod along at whatever rate GM has determined will net the required ZEV credits. Heck, they didn't have any ZEV for 2012, and it cost them a fortune.

GM sells half as many cars in California as Toyota, so for 2013 and 2014, to meet the 0.79% credit threshold, they need 150,000 cars for each year = 300,000 oil cars total * 0.79% ZEV credit = 2370 / 3 credits per 100 mile range car = 790 cars minimum sold in California for those two years.

Let's see how close I am.

dm33
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Re: Chevrolet to Produce Spark EV All-Electric Vehicle

Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:45 pm

GRA wrote:Presumably, now that they've got the Spark EV they won't need to buy credits from here on out. It will be interesting to see just how big a sales spike there is once the CCS-equipped cars are available, because I imagine there are many people holding off for them.
Basically, they lose more money selling a Spark EV than it costs to buy a ZEV credit. Thats the main reason why they sell as few BEVs are possible. They also do not believe in EVs, are not committed to EVs and are trying to do the minimum necessary to allow them to continue selling ICE vehicles in California.
I don't think many would hold off purchasing because of CCS.

cwerdna
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Re: Chevrolet to Produce Spark EV All-Electric Vehicle

Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:51 pm

^^^
LOL! Yeah, w/the "widespread" public availability of CCS DC FCs, that'll sure make the CCS equipped Spark EVs worth it. ;)

For EV folks who have kept track of what's going on, if they wanted viable DC FC, there's been no reason for screw around, the Leaf, i-Miev and Model S already exist.

I do wonder how many of unwashed masses who don't know much about EVs will be more inclined to get a J1772 CCS-equipped Spark EV, only to later discover that there's virtually 0 infrastructure (and then discover CHAdeMO and Superchargers.)

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TonyWilliams
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Re: Chevrolet to Produce Spark EV All-Electric Vehicle

Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:59 pm

cwerdna wrote:I do wonder how many of unwashed masses who don't know much about EVs will be more inclined to get a J1772 CCS-equipped Spark EV, only to later discover that there's virtually 0 infrastructure (and then discover CHAdeMO and Superchargers.)
Which is exactly why I pop over to http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; to bring that point up regularly.

lion
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Re: Chevrolet to Produce Spark EV All-Electric Vehicle

Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:40 pm

cwerdna wrote:^^^
LOL! Yeah, w/the "widespread" public availability of CCS DC FCs, that'll sure make the CCS equipped Spark EVs worth it. ;)

For EV folks who have kept track of what's going on, if they wanted viable DC FC, there's been no reason for screw around, the Leaf, i-Miev and Model S already exist.

I do wonder how many of unwashed masses who don't know much about EVs will be more inclined to get a J1772 CCS-equipped Spark EV, only to later discover that there's virtually 0 infrastructure (and then discover CHAdeMO and Superchargers.)
Some people get the fast charging option just in case it does ever appear. I'm in that boat, as there isn't any real CHAdeMO charging infrastructure in NY, but got the option anyways.

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LTLFTcomposite
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Re: Chevrolet to Produce Spark EV All-Electric Vehicle

Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:11 pm

lion wrote: Some people get the fast charging option just in case it does ever appear. I'm in that boat, as there isn't any real CHAdeMO charging infrastructure in NY, but got the option anyways.
I skipped the CHAdeMO option on my 2012 lease because I didn't have any confidence any L3 stations would appear in the three year lease period. Now I'm thinking when renewal comes up I can safely go CHAdeMO-less another 2-3 years and not miss out on anything. There must be a ton of CHAdeMO connectors on Leafs out there that have never been cracked.
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GRA
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Re: Chevrolet to Produce Spark EV All-Electric Vehicle

Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:20 pm

cwerdna wrote:^^^
LOL! Yeah, w/the "widespread" public availability of CCS DC FCs, that'll sure make the CCS equipped Spark EVs worth it. ;)

For EV folks who have kept track of what's going on, if they wanted viable DC FC, there's been no reason for screw around, the Leaf, i-Miev and Model S already exist.

I do wonder how many of unwashed masses who don't know much about EVs will be more inclined to get a J1772 CCS-equipped Spark EV, only to later discover that there's virtually 0 infrastructure (and then discover CHAdeMO and Superchargers.)
I suspect the % is about the same as the % of early LEAF adopters who got CHAdeMO, many of whom have yet to be able to use it. The Spark EV's smaller size, better range and performance, plus its liquid-cooled TMS make it a better choice for many; the lack of QC and a 6.0kW+ OBC holds it back. At least in California CCS will fix the first problem, although the situation is likely to resemble the CHAdeMO rollout for the first year or two. Right now it's just like 2011, when the only public CHAdeMO was at Mitsubishi HQ.

As it is, the biggest problem with the unwashed masses and the Spark EV to date has been clueless/larcenous salespeople telling buyers that the car can use available QC (i.e. CHAdeMO) now. Tony and I have been taking great pains to point out to new and potential Spark EV owners on mychevysparkev.com that it isn't so. OTOH, Tony and I disagree about the future viability of the Spark EV and CCS. And I completely disagree with another poster that GM doesn't support EVs, because my definition of EV is any vehicle that uses an electric motor(s) for its motive force, i.e. HEVs/PHEVs/FCEVs/FCHEVs. GM will support whatever sells.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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