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TonyWilliams
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Re: Official Toyota RAV4 EV Thread

Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:51 am

EVDrive wrote:... the Rav 4 EV is an amazing car to drive. Comfortable, powerful and has the minimum range needed for a stress free day trip. It definitely has room for extra seats in the back as well.
That's what Mrs. Tony liked best... no stress. The third row seat option looks viable.

sparky
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Re: Official Toyota RAV4 EV Thread

Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:55 pm

Since it's a Tesla powertrain I doubt Toyota had much to say about a Chademo option.
Other things I recall from my RAV4 tryout: I found the turning radius to be the same as the LEAF; wind-noise worse but road noise a little better (which was odd). And you reminded me about that reverse chime which was annoying as hell and only inside the car!
My time with the RAV4 EV had me thinking a 40 kWh Model S may work just fine for me. The range was really more than enough for all but a handful of long trips.
I recently pulled the trigger on a Model S reservation so now I have 10-11 mos to choose between the 40 or 85 pack (the 60 seems like a poorer value).

In 3 yrs, perhaps I'll look for one of these coming off its lease. At $25k, it seems like a good replacement for our LEAF which will be 5 yrs and down to about 55 freeway miles (I hope). I don't think I'll ever get my wife back into a non plug-in car and the RAV4 seems like a great car for her commute. However, she drove it and still prefers the LEAF.

palmermd
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Re: Official Toyota RAV4 EV Thread

Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:15 pm

sparky wrote:However, she drove it and still prefers the LEAF.
Thats the first person who I've heard said that. Everyone comes away very impressed with this car. I was looking forward to Tony's review. He went in a little sceptical and came out raving about the car. Pretty much what I thought would happen. After my time with the car I wished it was available at the time I bought my Leaf. I'd have jumped at this over the Leaf in an instant. For me, I'm looking at an 85kWh S or X, because it could replace both my Leaf and my Prius.
Michael

Leaf from 31 March 2011 - Traded 18 April 2019 for Tesla Model 3 Unicorn
Driving electric since 1996


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DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Official Toyota RAV4 EV Thread

Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:31 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:
EVDrive wrote:... the Rav 4 EV is an amazing car to drive. Comfortable, powerful and has the minimum range needed for a stress free day trip. It definitely has room for extra seats in the back as well.
That's what Mrs. Tony liked best... no stress. The third row seat option looks viable.
130 miles is great. so you think Toyota is allowing access to 36 Kwh? wow... 90% of the pack! a bit surprising considering their normal conservatism.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 19,653 mi, 93.47% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

GRA
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Re: Official Toyota RAV4 EV Thread

Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:44 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
TonyWilliams wrote:
EVDrive wrote:... the Rav 4 EV is an amazing car to drive. Comfortable, powerful and has the minimum range needed for a stress free day trip. It definitely has room for extra seats in the back as well.
That's what Mrs. Tony liked best... no stress. The third row seat option looks viable.
130 miles is great. so you think Toyota is allowing access to 36 Kwh? wow... 90% of the pack! a bit surprising considering their normal conservatism.
ISTR reading somewhere that 37.5kWh was usable with an 'extended mode' charge. Unfortunately, I can't find it, and that works out to ~90%, which is high unless they're hiding some beyond 41.8kWh.

Edit: Found the following in a Green Car Congress report from August; no idea of its accuracy:

"The RAV4 EV has two charge modes: Standard and Extended. In standard mode, the high voltage battery charges only up to 35 kWh and the vehicle is expected to achieve an EPA-estimated driving range rating of 92 miles. Extended Mode allows the battery to charge to its full usable capacity of 41.8 kWh, providing an anticipated EPA-estimated driving range of 113 miles. Standard mode is designed to optimize battery life over range; however, the 8-year, 100,000-mile battery warranty cover the packs regardless of the mix of charge modes over the packs’s life."

"Charging times
Standard Mode Extended Mode
40A/240V 5 hrs 6 hrs
30A/240V 6.5 hrs 8 hrs
16A/240V 12 hrs 15 hrs
12A/120V 44 hrs 52 hrs"

Oh, yeah, from the same article, describing their target market:

"Based on its research, Toyota has a clear customer in mind, Fay said. The target buyer is married, 45–60 years old, highly educated, and is an affluent and evangelistic early adopter. He or she owns a home, which is perhaps solar-powered. The target buyers have strong personal convictions on the environment, oil use, and cutting edge technology. 'The pool of buyers,' noted Fay, 'is small.'"

They certainly nailed that.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2012/08 ... 20803.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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TonyWilliams
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Re: Official Toyota RAV4 EV Thread

Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:16 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:130 miles is great. so you think Toyota is allowing access to 36 Kwh? wow... 90% of the pack! a bit surprising considering their normal conservatism.
I doubt Toyota had much say in that part. But, 90% is less than LEAF at 93% and no TMS.

GRA wrote:Oh, yeah, from the same article, describing their target market:

"Based on its research, Toyota has a clear customer in mind, Fay said. The target buyer is married, 45–60 years old, highly educated, and is an affluent and evangelistic early adopter. He or she owns a home, which is perhaps solar-powered. The target buyers have strong personal convictions on the environment, oil use, and cutting edge technology. 'The pool of buyers,' noted Fay, 'is small.'"

They certainly nailed that.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2012/08 ... 20803.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wow. Ya, got that one.

GRA
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Re: Official Toyota RAV4 EV Thread

Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:17 pm

From GCC yesterday:

"Toyota RAV4 EV may not be compatible with all public Level 2 charging stations

2 November 2012

"Toyota has notified their dealer network that some 2012 RAV4 EV customers may complain of a “Check EV System” warning message after they try to charge their vehicle at a public Level 2 electric vehicle charging station. “Level 2” refers to a 240V AC electric vehicle charging station, or EVSE (Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment).

"Toyota uses Leviton Manufacturing as its Level 2 EVSE supplier. Leviton offers 16A, 30A, and 40A charging stations, approved for use with the 2012 RAV4 EV. Toyota has also confirmed basic compatibility between the RAV4 EV and the following Level 2 charging stations:"

Aerovironment: Level 2 EVSE-RS
Blink/Ecotality: Level 2 Charge Station
ChargePoint/Coulomb Technologies: CT2000 Series
Clipper Creek: CS Series
Eaton: EV Charging Station (residential)
Eaton: Pow-R-Station (commercial)
Schneider Electric: EVLink Indoor Charging Station (EV2430WS)

"Toyota plans to continue basic testing on additional Level 2 charging stations, to identify other EVSE than are compatible with the RAV4 EV."
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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TonyWilliams
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Re: Official Toyota RAV4 EV Thread

Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:02 pm

WARNING WARNING WARNING

Toyota has an interesting handling of the IRS $7500 tax credit. Those of us who bought a LEAF know all too well that when you buy the car, you file tax form 8936 for the $7500 credit.

But if we lease, Nissan will rightly take the credit, and pass it on to in your lease as a $7500 tax credit.

TOYOTA DOES NOT DO THIS !!! Toyota keeps the credit, according to the Toyota regional dude who explained it away with the dealer I was trying to lease the Rav4 from. The $7500 is just magic that Toyota seems to think that the end consumer is better off not knowing.

So, when Toyota says their lease has $3200 cash for you, the leasee, they really mean they are going to give you $3200 of the $7500 they get as a credit, for themselves. Instant $4300 profit for them (not the dealer... the legal owner, Toyota Financial (or whatever it's called)).

Caveat Emptor

cwerdna
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Re: Official Toyota RAV4 EV Thread

Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:01 pm

^^^
There have been similar complaints about Toyota handles PiP lease tax credits. The Prius product manager chimed in about this. It sucks. See below on that...

http://priuschat.com/threads/pip-lease- ... st-1479464" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://priuschat.com/threads/pip-lease- ... st-1494905" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't know if the situation has changed, but from the sounds of it w/the Rav4 EV, it hasn't.

(And yes, Erica does work for Toyota. I've met her before at an official Toyota event. And, I've been invited to official Toyota events via the "Prius Team" user.)
Last edited by cwerdna on Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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EVDrive
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Re: Official Toyota RAV4 EV Thread

Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:47 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:WARNING WARNING WARNING

The $7500 is just magic that Toyota seems to think that the end consumer is better off not knowing.

So, when Toyota says their lease has $3200 cash for you, the leasee, they really mean they are going to give you $3200 of the $7500 they get as a credit, for themselves. Instant $4300 profit for them (not the dealer... the legal owner, Toyota Financial (or whatever it's called)).
Really... that is unfortunate. Well this just seems like another way that they are showing a lack of wanting to get these on the road. Nissan is much more eager to get their ev's on the road than Toyota.

What are you planning to do Tony? Lease or buy?
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