cwerdna
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Toyota/Subaru bZ4X / Solterra

Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:10 pm

"Toyota bZ4X is the future of both Toyota and Subaru electric cars
It goes on sale next year"
https://www.autoblog.com/2021/04/18/toy ... ru-reveal/

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danrjones
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Re: Toyota/Subaru bZ4X

Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:55 am

cwerdna wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:10 pm
"Toyota bZ4X is the future of both Toyota and Subaru electric cars
It goes on sale next year"
https://www.autoblog.com/2021/04/18/toy ... ru-reveal/
I like our Subaru outback, but its going to take a lot of convincing by Toyota that they are serious about EVs given some of the comments they have made, and their total lack of commitment thus far to EVs.
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LeftieBiker
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Re: Toyota/Subaru bZ4X

Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:49 pm

Ah, the return of the 'stepped on the head' look! They never learn.
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SageBrush
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Re: Toyota/Subaru bZ4X

Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:00 pm

Toyota will have to give up on their air cooled battery if they want to be competitive in DC fast charging (and not damage the battery.)
Any news on that front ?

I can easily imagine my wife choosing this car or a Tesla Model Y to eventually replace her LEAF. We were both fans of Toyota and Subaru before we went Tesla, and it is not out of the question that we would renew our acquaintance. Actually, we only left Subaru to improve fuel economy, and we left Toyota to go electric.
Last edited by SageBrush on Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
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11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
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jjeff
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Re: Toyota/Subaru bZ4X

Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:07 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:00 pm
Toyota will have to give up on their air cooled battery if they want to be competitive in DC fast charging (and not damage the battery.)
Any news on that front ?
That brings up a point, any idea if the 16kwh battery in the new Rav4 Prime is just air cooling? It doesn't have QC but still even air-cooled Leafs that lived in hot AZ-type climates that never QC'd degraded pretty quickly.....
Last edited by jjeff on Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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SageBrush
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Re: Toyota/Subaru bZ4X

Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:11 pm

jjeff wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:07 pm
SageBrush wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:00 pm
Toyota will have to give up on their air cooled battery if they want to be competitive in DC fast charging (and not damage the battery.)
Any news on that front ?
That brings up a point, any idea if the 16kw battery in the new Rav4 Prime is just air cooling? It doesn't have QC but still even air-cooled Leafs that lived in hot AZ-type climates that never QC'd degraded pretty quickly.....
I'm pretty sure it is air cooled, but it is nothing like the LEAF. It uses cabin air (that may have been cooled by a heat pump) and pumps it **through** the battery. I owned the Prius Prime which I'm pretty sure has the same system, and I never saw battery temps over 38C. It's a fine system ... until DC (truly) fast charging is considered. They can probably get away with 50 kW (and maybe 75 kW), but I don't consider that kind of EV an ICE replacement.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

knightmb
Posts: 926
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Re: Toyota/Subaru bZ4X

Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:07 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:49 pm
Ah, the return of the 'stepped on the head' look! They never learn.
Looks quite aero-defeating for some reason...
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cwerdna
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Re: Toyota/Subaru bZ4X

Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:13 pm

jjeff wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:07 pm
SageBrush wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:00 pm
Toyota will have to give up on their air cooled battery if they want to be competitive in DC fast charging (and not damage the battery.)
Any news on that front ?
That brings up a point, any idea if the 16kw battery in the new Rav4 Prime is just air cooling? It doesn't have QC but still even air-cooled Leafs that lived in hot AZ-type climates that never QC'd degraded pretty quickly.....
Do you mean 16 kWh?

Since Prius Prime was mentioned, the JDM version does/did have a CHAdeMO inlet. US ones don't.

It's alluded to in at https://global.toyota/en/detail/15055900/ and listed at https://www.chademo.com/products/evs/.

https://priuschat.com/threads/how-are-t ... ed.206371/ is a thread I quickly found about battery cooling on Prius Primes. (Even non-plugin NiMH Priuses as far back as gen 2 (04 to 09 model year) and maybe gen 1 (not 100% sure right now), had some battery cooling. Gen 2 had an intake (from the cabin) next to the rear seats and a battery fan to draw air from the cabin to cool the pack, that was behind the rear seats.)

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Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

LeftieBiker
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Re: Toyota/Subaru bZ4X

Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:49 pm

That fan cooling with cabin air didn't help our PIP much. When we got rid of it the degradation was almost exactly 1/3, or 66% remaining.

I think that both Toyota and Subaru are fighting a Rear Guard Action, trying to delay the inevitable until they literally have no choice but to make BEVs...
Brilliant Silver 2021 Leaf SV40 W/ Pro Pilot & Protection
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 2 lithium E-bicycles.
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PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

GRA
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Re: Toyota/Subaru bZ4X

Wed May 12, 2021 5:58 pm

cwedna, you might want to change the topic title, or split it into two, or I can start one if you'd prefer. Via GCC:
Subaru names coming electric SUV Solterra; new e-SUBARU Global Platform

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2021/0 ... terra.html

. . . The Solterra will go on sale in 2022.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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