WetEV
Posts: 4059
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Volkswagen ID.4 CUV

Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:20 am

danrjones wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:12 am
The first edition says its sold out.

I wonder if VW dealers are going to pull a Ford or Toyota and price it over msrp gouging their customers? (Mache, rav4prime)

I really liked the yellow/gold color but its not a US color.

Well Poop.
White Grey Black and Silver only.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

danrjones
Posts: 786
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2019
Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: Volkswagen ID.4 CUV

Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:38 am

WetEV wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:20 am
danrjones wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:12 am
The first edition says its sold out.

I wonder if VW dealers are going to pull a Ford or Toyota and price it over msrp gouging their customers? (Mache, rav4prime)

I really liked the yellow/gold color but its not a US color.

Well Poop.
White Grey Black and Silver only.
Yep. And the regular edition for 2021 doesn't have the yellow shown either.
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

GRA
Posts: 12399
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Volkswagen ID.4 CUV

Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:42 pm

IEVS:
2021 Volkswagen ID.4 $379/Mo Lease: Is It Really A Good Deal?
https://insideevs.com/features/445841/2 ... omparison/

. . . According to CarsDirect, despite the attractive lease incentive, the ID.4 will be much more expensive than many current EVs and over triple the cost of leasing a Chevrolet Bolt. We previously announced that people in some areas can lease a Bolt EV for just $154 per month with only $154 due at signing.

The Volkswagen deal applies to the 2021 ID.4 Pro. As soon as it comes out of the gate, people will be able to lease it for $379 per month with $3,579 due at signing. This is a $10,000-mile per-year lease plan. If you roll the down payment into the monthly payment to get a better idea of the effective cost, it works out to nearly $500 per month before taxes and fees.

CarsDirect says the effective payment for the ID.4 is $48 a month more than the Hyundai Kona Electric ($319 per month with $3,999 down). However, it's also $179 less per month than the Tesla Model Y ($499 per month with $5,694 down). The publication's lease deal speculation for the Ford Mustang Mach-E is right on par with that of the Model Y. Ford hasn't made a lease deal official, but CarsDirect says the lease rate "is equivalent to 2.25% APR with 36 and 48-month lease options. . . ."
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

Astros
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:21 am
Delivery Date: 28 Apr 2018
Leaf Number: 310136
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Volkswagen ID.4 CUV

Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:42 pm

For the cost of a refundable $100, I went ahead and placed a reservation for a 1st edition. One weird thing to note is about the colors. Blue and red are not technically added cost options, but you can only choose them if you select upgraded options.

We take multiple long trips with our kids to our cabin in Oregon each Summer, so I've been looking for something that is a little larger than the Leaf and that also charges faster. Or, at least that charges as fast as the Leaf Plus can, but consistently. So far, the Tesla model Y, Nissan Ariya, Ford Mach-E, and VW ID.4 all meet our criteria. Of those, the Y seems by far the best vehicle, but it's also more money than my wife is willing to pay for a car, and I have to admit she has a point. The Mach-E is similarly expensive, and doesn't seem to be as good of a car, so it's right out. I'm waiting to see what the long-range Ariya will cost, but it has the disadvantage of not being available for a year. The Ariya comes out ahead in my spreadsheet weighing cost vs features, but that's with several assumptions about the cost. So, we'll see. My main concern about the ID.4 is the botched rollout of software for the ID.3 in Europe, and given how much of the car is controlled by the software I don't want to get saddled with something that is effectively unusable.
2019 Deep Blue SL Plus

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15158
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Volkswagen ID.4 CUV

Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:26 pm

Astros wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:42 pm
For the cost of a refundable $100, I went ahead and placed a reservation for a 1st edition. One weird thing to note is about the colors. Blue and red are not technically added cost options, but you can only choose them if you select upgraded options.

We take multiple long trips with our kids to our cabin in Oregon each Summer, so I've been looking for something that is a little larger than the Leaf and that also charges faster. Or, at least that charges as fast as the Leaf Plus can, but consistently. So far, the Tesla model Y, Nissan Ariya, Ford Mach-E, and VW ID.4 all meet our criteria. Of those, the Y seems by far the best vehicle, but it's also more money than my wife is willing to pay for a car, and I have to admit she has a point. The Mach-E is similarly expensive, and doesn't seem to be as good of a car, so it's right out. I'm waiting to see what the long-range Ariya will cost, but it has the disadvantage of not being available for a year. The Ariya comes out ahead in my spreadsheet weighing cost vs features, but that's with several assumptions about the cost. So, we'll see. My main concern about the ID.4 is the botched rollout of software for the ID.3 in Europe, and given how much of the car is controlled by the software I don't want to get saddled with something that is effectively unusable.
Hard to be a fan of a car that doesn't exist but on paper, but it has potential. It is not a lot larger than the LEAF although leg room in on par with the #1 Bolt. Cargo space with passengers a bit bigger. The real issue will be supply which means minimal discounting so the cost will be significantly higher than the LEAF Plus probably until the US factory launches. I like that factory hitch is available so at least VW admits to what everyone else is doing anyway which is towing with their EVs.

Unless something drastic happens in the next 14 months, I will be holding onto my LEAF for a while but this could be contender when the dealing starts.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 14,342.8 mi, 93.16% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

GRA
Posts: 12399
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Volkswagen ID.4 CUV

Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:42 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:26 pm


Hard to be a fan of a car that doesn't exist but on paper, but it has potential. It is not a lot larger than the LEAF although leg room in on par with the #1 Bolt. Cargo space with passengers a bit bigger. The real issue will be supply which means minimal discounting so the cost will be significantly higher than the LEAF Plus probably until the US factory launches. I like that factory hitch is available so at least VW admits to what everyone else is doing anyway which is towing with their EVs.
More likely just means people want to use hitch racks for bikes/skis/snowboards. I've never seen anyone towing with a BEV locally but have seen plenty of hitch racks, and the range and charge times make current BEVs poor at towing except at short range. Not to mention the general lack of pull through charging spots, that force tow drivers to either block multiple chargers, a lane, or unhitch.
Last edited by GRA on Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

Kieran973
Posts: 132
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:51 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2019
Location: near NY, NY

Re: Volkswagen ID.4 CUV

Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:27 pm

I have to say: this is a pretty underwhelming car given all the hype. How is this a significant advance over the Kona and Niro, cars which are basically two years old at this point? Compared to the Niro/Kona, the ID4 has: 1.) moderately improved cargo space (30 cu ft in the ID4 vs. 23 cu ft in the Niro), and 2.) slightly better rapid charging speeds (average speed from 10-60% SOC: mid 80's kW in the ID4 vs. mid 60's kW in the Niro/Kona). And for these humble improvements, there's also a $5K price increase ($37K for the Kona vs $42K for the ID4). I'll admit, cargo space which puts the ID4 more in line with a CRV or RAV4 is somewhat of a a big deal, but for this car to be the true "car for the millions" it was supposed to be, I would have expected it to hit at least three out of the four following benchmarks: $35K before incentives, 300 miles of range, 30 cu ft cargo space, 100 kW average rapid charging speed from 10-60%. I wouldn't have said this a week ago, but the Ariya is honestly looking like a better car right now, except for the fatal flaw of its hilariously/pathetically small cargo space (who would want an SUV that has less trunk space than a Honda Civic?). So perhaps the Ioniq 5 will be the actual car to wait for...
current: Black 2019 SV Plus with all-weather package (purchased 5/20)
former: Silver 2019 SV with all-weather package (purchased 5/19; traded in 5/20 with 15,000 miles)

GRA
Posts: 12399
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Volkswagen ID.4 CUV

Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:40 pm

^^^ In general I agree with you, although the ID.4 will eventually offer AWD which is the biggest equipment option lacking on the Kona/Niro/Bolt. At a considerably higher price to be sure, but still a lot less than the Model Y or Mustang.

Also, it will presumably have a capacity warranty like the e-Golf, which the Koreans don't have.

I hope/suspect that VW is low-balling the range as they did with the Taycan, as even with the ID.4's greater size and weight the extra 11-18 kWh between it and the others (not clear if the Bolt and Koreans kWh are usable or total) should give it range that exceeds any of theirs - I was thinking at least 270-275 EPA, and am hoping they may hit 300.

As for charge speed, although it's not a Tesla, a 1/3rd (your calc) to 1/2 (my calc) increase in average charge rate is still usefully better.

Still, I confess I'm considering a Bolt lease now; although the car falls short of my requirements for range/charging speed/space/AWD, there are some excellent deals to be had, the seats don't bother me and it's a fun car to drive. I can either keep my Forester for the trips the Bolt is really unsuited for, or sell it and put up with the Bolt's limitations for three years while I await something better.

The problem with selling is there's no guarantee a car I'll want to buy for the long term will be available then - I suspect it will be more like 5-7 years, so I might find myself three years from now without another relatively inexpensive interim BEV to lease.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15158
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Volkswagen ID.4 CUV

Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:52 pm

Hmm? Kia "had" a capacity warranty. Didn't realize it went away.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 14,342.8 mi, 93.16% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Kieran973
Posts: 132
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:51 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2019
Location: near NY, NY

Re: Volkswagen ID.4 CUV

Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:41 pm

GRA wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:40 pm
^^^ In general I agree with you, although the ID.4 will eventually offer AWD which is the biggest equipment option lacking on the Kona/Niro/Bolt. At a considerably higher price to be sure, but still a lot less than the Model Y or Mustang.

Also, it will presumably have a capacity warranty like the e-Golf, which the Koreans don't have.

I hope/suspect that VW is low-balling the range as they did with the Taycan, as even with the ID.4's greater size and weight the extra 11-18 kWh between it and the others (not clear if the Bolt and Koreans kWh are usable or total) should give it range that exceeds any of theirs - I was thinking at least 270-275 EPA, and am hoping they may hit 300.

As for charge speed, although it's not a Tesla, a 1/3rd (your calc) to 1/2 (my calc) increase in average charge rate is still usefully better.

Still, I confess I'm considering a Bolt lease now; although the car falls short of my requirements for range/charging speed/space/AWD, there are some excellent deals to be had, the seats don't bother me and it's a fun car to drive. I can either keep my Forester for the trips the Bolt is really unsuited for, or sell it and put up with the Bolt's limitations for three years while I await something better.

The problem with selling is there's no guarantee a car I'll want to buy for the long term will be available then - I suspect it will be more like 5-7 years, so I might find myself three years from now without another relatively inexpensive interim BEV to lease.
Agreed on the possibly conservative range estimate - I too am hoping for 270-275 EPA.

I may be flat out wrong about the average rapid charging speed. For one, I based my estimate mostly on Bjorn's video of the ID3 charging on an Ionity charger (it never charged higher than 100 kW; and at only 30% SOC, it started levelling off) with the assumption that the ID4 will have the same charging curve (it very well may not). More importantly, your comment prompted me to check several green car websites again, and many of them - Green Car Reports, for example - are claiming 5%-80% gained in 38 minutes, which means a gain of .75 x 77 kWh useable over .63333 hours = 91 kW average charging speed. Is that more or less what you got?

Since you brought up leasing a Bolt, you might consider buying a used Bolt instead and then just re-selling it in three years. On cars.com, 2017 Bolts are starting at around $14K right now. I have to think that 14K minus whatever you can sell it for in three years would be less $ than the cost of a three year lease, but then again, I haven't looked at lease prices in a while. The same goes for 2017 Ioniq EVs by the way - they're about 13K right now. Less range than the Bolt, obviously, but faster rapid charging speeds, more comfortable seats, and more cargo space (though I found the rear visibility in the Ioniq to be poor).
current: Black 2019 SV Plus with all-weather package (purchased 5/20)
former: Silver 2019 SV with all-weather package (purchased 5/19; traded in 5/20 with 15,000 miles)

Return to “Other Electric Cars & Plug-In Hybrids”