LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 16934
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Volkswagen ID.4 CUV

Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:06 pm

$3860 is about what I spend on myself in a typical year. (In 2020 I think it was more like $250.)
Brilliant Silver 2021 Leaf SV40 W/ Pro Pilot & Protection
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 2 lithium E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

salyavin
Posts: 323
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:51 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Dec 2019
Leaf Number: 318726
Location: Littleton , CO

Re: Volkswagen ID.4 CUV

Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:04 pm

Yea that is 321 a month for one year. Not everyone finds that to be pocket change.

danrjones
Posts: 1047
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2019
Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: Volkswagen ID.4 CUV

Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:46 am

YMMV but I wouldn't pay extra for AWD, not if I already have it on another vehicle. 99.99% of the time I don't need AWD. I'd take the lower cost and higher range. Caveat: I'm in CA, and I already have a Subaru Outback. If I only had one total vehicle I might decide differently.

Plus, my Leaf right now only costs me about 225 per month. Obviously more than 1 year loan, but still, that would be paying more for AWD than my monthly payment for my Leaf.
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

SageBrush
Forum Supporter
Posts: 6257
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Volkswagen ID.4 CUV

Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:03 am

danrjones wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:46 am
YMMV but I wouldn't pay extra for AWD, not if I already have it on another vehicle. 99.99% of the time I don't need AWD. I'd take the lower cost and higher range. Caveat: I'm in CA, and I already have a Subaru Outback. If I only had one total vehicle I might decide differently.

Plus, my Leaf right now only costs me about 225 per month. Obviously more than 1 year loan, but still, that would be paying more for AWD than my monthly payment for my Leaf.
AWD is over-valued in ICE cars because people mistakenly think it substitutes for winter tyres and it is relatively expensive to implement. It is cheaper to implement in EVs, and Tesla at least mostly markets it as extra acceleration, and at times has only produced AWD cars to streamline production.

Informed consumers know that AWD is 90% marketing hype, and if they really want good winter performance they need winter tyres regardless.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

danrjones
Posts: 1047
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2019
Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: Volkswagen ID.4 CUV

Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:09 am

SageBrush wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:03 am
danrjones wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:46 am
YMMV but I wouldn't pay extra for AWD, not if I already have it on another vehicle. 99.99% of the time I don't need AWD. I'd take the lower cost and higher range. Caveat: I'm in CA, and I already have a Subaru Outback. If I only had one total vehicle I might decide differently.

Plus, my Leaf right now only costs me about 225 per month. Obviously more than 1 year loan, but still, that would be paying more for AWD than my monthly payment for my Leaf.
AWD is over-valued in ICE cars because people mistakenly think it substitutes for winter tyres and it is relatively expensive to implement. It is cheaper to implement in EVs, and Tesla at least mostly markets it as extra acceleration, and at times has only produced AWD cars to streamline production.

Informed consumers know that AWD is 90% marketing hype, and if they really want good winter performance they need winter tyres regardless.
Also, here in CA you need to carry chains anyway, or face a huge ticket. I'd rather have chains and snow tires on a 2WD vehicle, than neither but with AWD. I've heard chains are not as popular outside the west though.
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

SageBrush
Forum Supporter
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Re: Volkswagen ID.4 CUV

Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:21 pm

danrjones wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:09 am
SageBrush wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:03 am
danrjones wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:46 am
YMMV but I wouldn't pay extra for AWD, not if I already have it on another vehicle. 99.99% of the time I don't need AWD. I'd take the lower cost and higher range. Caveat: I'm in CA, and I already have a Subaru Outback. If I only had one total vehicle I might decide differently.

Plus, my Leaf right now only costs me about 225 per month. Obviously more than 1 year loan, but still, that would be paying more for AWD than my monthly payment for my Leaf.
AWD is over-valued in ICE cars because people mistakenly think it substitutes for winter tyres and it is relatively expensive to implement. It is cheaper to implement in EVs, and Tesla at least mostly markets it as extra acceleration, and at times has only produced AWD cars to streamline production.

Informed consumers know that AWD is 90% marketing hype, and if they really want good winter performance they need winter tyres regardless.
Also, here in CA you need to carry chains anyway, or face a huge ticket. I'd rather have chains and snow tires on a 2WD vehicle, than neither but with AWD. I've heard chains are not as popular outside the west though.
Moreover, you should absolutely prefer a 2WD vehicle with winter tyres over AWD with 'all season' tyres
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

frontrangeleaf
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:07 am
Delivery Date: 08 Jul 2019
Location: Denver Area

Re: Volkswagen ID.4 CUV

Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:09 pm

Yep. Winter tires are under-appreciated, and AWD arguably over-valued. There's no substitute for traction at the contact patch.

We run dedicated snow tires on separate wheels on all of our "year-round" vehicles. I usually go "-2" (narrower with taller profile is better in the slick, so 16" winter wheels paired with 18" 3-season wheels for example). Granted, in Denver, it tends to be really mild, until it's not. Most folks recoil from the thought of the added cost, but it's really just a one-time hit to get wheels, and then you spread your miles out over 2 sets of tires, so your running cost is basically the same. Although active TPMS does start to add up.

Not going to work for everyone, I get that, but you only have to avoid 1 accident a decade to see the payoff. In the 20 years that I've been using them, I've avoided at least 2 major accidents that would have totaled our car, and countless smaller ones. Doesn't take much to run up a repair bill that's several multiples more expensive than an extra set of tires every 4-5 years.

"All-seasons" in my mind should be either required to work in the winter (there's no performance requirement for that designation), or struck from commercial speech as a violation of truth-in-advertising. All-seasons are really 3-season tires anywhere winter is real. They should be marketed as 3-season tires. The newer "all-weather" tires that meet the performance requirements for the 3 mountain peak snowflake symbol are the only true all-season tires on the market.

On our Leaf, I did buy 17" wheels because I wanted wider rims for the 3-season tires. The stock wheels are already super narrow at 17x6.5". I put the snows on those. When the stock 3-season tires wear out, I'll go a little wider on the new wheels just for fun. Range isn't a concern for how we use this car.

Edit: clarity and typos
Empty-nesters - NW Denver-Boulder Area

2019 Leaf SL Plus
2015 Audi Q5 TDI
2007 BMW Z4 3.0Si
2012 VW GTI: SOLD

dmacarthur
Posts: 266
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:00 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Jul 2018
Leaf Number: 306556
Location: Vermont

Re: Volkswagen ID.4 CUV

Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:01 pm

We absolutely need studded snows here on our mountain- ice and icy snow are the killers. The Leaf is as good as anything 2WD with studs on it EXCEPT in deep snow and mud season, when clearance is the issue and MOST AWD cars have more clearance. We bought a used Juke just for winter driving and put a lift kit in it for clearance, this also leaves the leaf in the garage when there is the worst salt on the roads. Any 2WD with studs stops as well as any AWD, but there are definitely times when AWD helps getting up hills.....
2015 Leaf sold
2019 Leaf Plus S as of 9/30/19

SageBrush
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Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Volkswagen ID.4 CUV

Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:18 pm

dmacarthur wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:01 pm
Any 2WD with studs stops as well as any AWD, but there are definitely times when AWD helps getting up hills.....
Any 2WD stops as well as any AWD if the cars have the same tyres.
Any 2WD with winter tyres stops sooner than any AWD with non-winter tyres.

The main AWD advantage is in going uphill. I think it also has some cornering advantage, although that might be implementation dependent.

As I wrote earlier, the AWD hype is strong in America
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

dmacarthur
Posts: 266
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:00 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Jul 2018
Leaf Number: 306556
Location: Vermont

Re: Volkswagen ID.4 CUV

Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:48 am

As I wrote earlier, the AWD hype is strong in America

especially in cities, among people who may occasionally want to go to the "country". Country folks like little 2wd cars because they have a Jeep CJ-2A in the barn.
2015 Leaf sold
2019 Leaf Plus S as of 9/30/19

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