Tempted by the dark side...

I like to stay informed about the state of EVs, so last week I took the Tesla Model Y for a test drive. Because of Covid, the sales guy stayed behind at the store and I just got to take it for a drive for 45 minutes, which was far preferable to having him try to describe features I already know about and direct me where to go and how to drive. The car completely surpassed my expectations, to the point that I am seriously considering ordering one and selling my Leaf. The Leaf is a great car, and the Plus version has addressed most of the shortcomings of it's predecessors, but now I am seriously tempted by the Y. The cargo area in the hatch of the Y is huge, and that's even before including the extra space under the false floor or the frunk. The seats are very comfortable, and not like any of the Teslas I've sat in before. The headroom for both front and back passengers is enormous, and the huge sunroof is beautiful. Using the touch screen feels no more distracting than using the equivalent hard buttons on the Leaf, and the voice commands worked intuitively. All of that is even before the claimed 300+ mile range and 250kW charging (which I take about as seriously as the Leaf's claimed 100kW charging...). The only downside is cost, and that's a big one. Especially since the resale value of a Leaf is pretty dismal right now.

So, what can you forum members say to talk me out of it?

If it’s in your budget, I could see it being tempting. Y has heat pump and more room. I would just suggest getting the Chademo adapter so you can still (socially distantly) hang out with your old Leaf pals.

I called Tesla to test drive a Y a few weeks ago (before we bought the S+) and was sent on an endless loop. The website wouldn’t let me pick the suburban center and only let me choose inner city (Chicago locations). The call center just sent me to the location center which forced me back to the call center. Then out of the blue 2 days later they texted me as a follow up, but then went dead as soon as I started asking how I could schedule the test drive. I gave up. I wasn’t really hankering to spend 50K in a car now.

Let us know what you decide. Just be sure to thoroughly inspect the car before accepting. There are some horror stories online.

I have 0 interest in a Model Y. To me, it looks ugly and it addresses none of my issues w/the Model 3 which is why I passed on 3. I have no need for a larger vehicle or one of that class.

Examples: No XM radio, no AM radio, no aux input jack (yes I actually have a use case for this), can't get rid of glass roof (people have had cracking not from impacts on the 3; yet another piece of glass that can be broken by road debris), do NOT want everything crammed into the touchscreen, reliability concerns (Tesla reliability ranges from downright TERRIBLE for the X to spotty for other models), high cost (price looks insane to me at $53K + 1.2K dest and doc fee + tax and license), no equivalent of Nissan Around View Monitor (LOVE this feature on my Leaf and like something similar on my Bolt).

I'm not sure if they addressed this on the Y, but the blind spot warning on Model 3 is lousy. It's not yellow lights in the mirror. Also, not sure if they addressed the wiper controls and lousy auto wiper mode.

There are more but I can't quickly enumerate them all off the top of my head. When I got my Bolt, (if memory serves) due to $7500 tax credit on Bolt (back then, now $0) and cheapest 3 back then being the MR, I was looking at $12K+ maybe even $14K+ price difference between the (heavily discounted) Bolt Premier that I got w/DC FC inlet and two packages minus tax credit vs. a 3 MR w/a color I was ok with. And, this is w/a 3 w/all sorts of issues (see above) that still haven't been addressed to this day. So, why would I want to pay a huge delta in price for a vehicle that lacks so many things I actually cared about and had vulnerabilities like the glass roof?

The last time I went on a roadtrip was in June 2017 to LA (about 350 miles each way). Back then I took my (now former) 06 Prius. I recognize the Bolt's a lousy roadtrip car but hey, $12K+ is a lot of rental cars and fuel or airplane tix instead.

Before lockdown forcing me to WFH, my commute's about 13 miles each way and I had free L2 charging at work. If I start with 80% charge on my '13 Leaf, drive home, drive back to work and plug in on work L2, I'd be back to 80% in 1 hour.

And, as usual for Tesla, plenty seem to be delivered/presented to customers riddled with defects.
https://insideevs.com/features/428293/video-tesla-model-y-issue-tesla-cant-fix/
https://insideevs.com/news/429697/video-tesla-fix-model-y-3-months/

Google for stuff like site:teslamotorsclub.com "model y" rejected or site:teslamotorsclub.com "model y" defects

That said, for some, Teslas have "status", the OTA updates are nice and the Supercharger network (in terms of speed, ubiquity and experience) are unmatched in the US. And, you have the widest range of compatibility w/charging: J1772 (free adapter included), Tesla's North American connector (for Supercharging and "destination chargers"), CHAdeMO (with $450 adapter).

My Bolt doesn't have and can't even have adaptive cruise control and Teslas obviously have features beyond that. And, my DC FC charging rate is capped at 55 kW and starts slowing down once I'm past around 55%.

Does the Y have a heated steering wheel?

LeftieBiker said:

Does the Y have a heated steering wheel?

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That is one of my favorite features on the Leaf that I didnt know I needed until I had it. I also really like the Leaf's rear end styling. The ID3 looks similar though the leaked photos on the ID4 are a bit different in style.

On the downside the thermal issues with the battery hit me hard the other day, maxing at under 30 kW and worsening through the day as the battery kept getting hotter. Definitely not suitable for road trips.

I'd be happy with an EV outback or EV Rav4 or similar that had 300 miles, 100+ kW charging and thermally managed batteries. For under 40k . It also would be good if the rear seats actually came bolted down from the factory....

danrjones said:

On the downside the thermal issues with the battery hit me hard the other day, maxing at under 30 kW and worsening through the day as the battery kept getting hotter. Definitely not suitable for road trips.

I'd be happy with an EV outback or EV Rav4 or similar that had 300 miles, 100+ kW charging and thermally managed batteries. For under 40k . It also would be good if the rear seats actually came bolted down from the factory....

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Too bad Bolt's DC FCing is capped at 55 kW but due to thermal management, as long as the battery's not too cold, you can DC FC multiple times in a day and not be throttled down by heat. On a powerful enough DC FC, you'll hit 55 kW each time until you hit around 55% SoC then get dropped down to 37 kW until the next ramp down and so on...

You’ll miss the heated steering wheel if it’s cold. Nice feature. We try to go south when it’s cold so hopefully we won’t miss it. Leaf is a great car. So is the model 3 (similar to the Y). I am not a fan of the model Y looks. Which is why we bought a model 3. We don’t need the room and prefer the sport sedan look. In my opinion the model 3/y are better road trip cars for a variety of reasons. If that is not a big thing then I think the Leaf plus is a great way to go also.

If you don’t mind let us know what you choose and Y.

Thanks

You should totally join the dark side I totally would.

Thank you all for your speedy input! I have to admit that we're not likely to make a decision very soon, since we would rather wait for the RWD version if it ever comes out. You've brought up a few features that I really would miss from the Leaf: the heated steering, the blind-spot monitoring, and the around view monitor. The visibility out the back of the Y is really poor, so you need the blind spot monitoring more than you do in the Leaf, yet during my test drive I didn't find it's system helpful at all.

Part of why this has come up is that we've been driving to our cabin about once a month, which is just shy of 300 miles each way. We stock up on all of our groceries and supplies for a week or so before we go, and with our two kids the Leaf has been packed. Our cabin is very remote and we have to park in the woods a mile and a half away and hike in, so there is no way to charge the car at our destination. So, our long and cramped trip there and back is made even longer having to sit at charging stations along the way. That makes more space, more range, and faster charging sound pretty attractive! The Plus is MUCH better than any previous Leaf I've owned, but it was still charging at only 20kW by the end of our final charging stop. It did start out at 55kW and averaged 35kW over a full hour, but with the Y that would have been 10-15 minutes.

A few other small things I liked about the Y:
You can adjust the recline of the rear seats. It's not by much, but I think it would be easier for my kids to fall asleep back there.
There are rear AC/heat vents.
The rear seats fold down 40/20/40, so we can have both kids in the back and still carry something long like skis.
Did I mention how comfortable the seats are?

A few more things I don't like about the Y:
The charge point is in the rear. Either we would have to find a new way to park our car, or we have to drag our home charging cable much further every time we charge. Also, we would need an adapter to use our home charger, and another to use the CHAdeMO-only chargers at some of our favorite locations.
While I found the touch screen surprisingly easy to use, I worry about it's durability. If it wears out or breaks after ten years, is the car ruined?

From https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/cracked-main-screen-bad-time.136088/page-4#post-3926048 (via quick digging), sounds like a replacement screen on a Model 3 is about $1400 right now.

I'd be concerned about the screen over time developing similar probs that Model S LCDs have had (e.g. yellowing, leaking, bubbles).

As for adapters, https://shop.tesla.com/product/sae-j1772-charging-adapter comes free with all currently sold Teslas.

cwerdna said:

From https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/cracked-main-screen-bad-time.136088/page-4#post-3926048 (via quick digging), sounds like a replacement screen on a Model 3 is about $1400 right now.

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Thanks for digging that up. As long as it's available, it's not a dealbreaker for me. But, that sure is expensive for a screen!

Astros said:

A few more things I don't like about the Y:
The charge point is in the rear. Either we would have to find a new way to park our car, or we have to drag our home charging cable much further every time we charge. Also, we would need an adapter to use our home charger, and another to use the CHAdeMO-only chargers at some of our favorite locations.
While I found the touch screen surprisingly easy to use, I worry about it's durability. If it wears out or breaks after ten years, is the car ruined?

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Don't forget to check the Niro Ev or E-Niro. Whichever people call it in your area. I've noticed in SoCal the dealers in LA have tons of them, but the markdowns are only a couple thousand. My closest dealer has them marked UP. Your area may be different. Not sure what they will negotiate down to, but the 2020 Niro EV may have everything you want. Price probably ends up between a Leaf and model Y. Its not the prettiest car though. If you want to wait, the new Kia Soul EV has gotten some good reviews in Canada where its already been released. Range is close to the Niro EV, maybe a couple miles shorter. I like the front myself of the new Soul, but not the rear or the boxy shape. My wife said "hell no" LOL.

The problem I had with the Soul EV when I test drove one was the virtual absence of cargo space with all of the seats up. Even the Bolt had more room behind the seats.

LeftieBiker said:

The problem I had with the Soul EV when I test drove one was the virtual absence of cargo space with all of the seats up. Even the Bolt had more room behind the seats.

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How were you able to test drive it? I thought the US hadn't been released while the rest of the world moved forward, we did not.

Did you test the older model? I have no idea if the cargo space changed but that could be a real problem with the shape. I just wish the Niro had the more modern front end.

Take the front of the Soul, the Body of the Niro, and the rear of the Leaf. And the battery pack of the Model X. All for less than 30k. Problem solved!

LeftieBiker said:

The problem I had with the Soul EV when I test drove one was the virtual absence of cargo space with all of the seats up. Even the Bolt had more room behind the seats.

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Soul EV? Gen 1?

Gen 2 of Soul EV is delayed until 2021 for the US, IIRC (https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1125576_official-kia-soul-ev-delayed-until-2021).

LeftieBiker said:

The problem I had with the Soul EV when I test drove one was the virtual absence of cargo space with all of the seats up. Even the Bolt had more room behind the seats.

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That's the big problem for me with the Niro EV or Bolt. According to the internet, the Niro has 18.5 cu. ft, the Bolt has 16.9 cu. ft, and the Leaf has 23.6 cu. ft behind the rear seats. We already fill the Leaf's hatch and pile some things around the kids in back, so it doesn't make much sense to switch to something with less space, even if the range and charging are improved. I gather the Model 3 has even less cargo space than the Bolt, so that's a big reason we've never considered it.

Astros said:

LeftieBiker said:

The problem I had with the Soul EV when I test drove one was the virtual absence of cargo space with all of the seats up. Even the Bolt had more room behind the seats.

Click to expand...

That's the big problem for me with the Niro EV or Bolt. According to the internet, the Niro has 18.5 cu. ft, the Bolt has 16.9 cu. ft, and the Leaf has 23.6 cu. ft behind the rear seats. We already fill the Leaf's hatch and pile some things around the kids in back, so it doesn't make much sense to switch to something with less space, even if the range and charging are improved. I gather the Model 3 has even less cargo space than the Bolt, so that's a big reason we've never considered it.

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Yeah. https://www.tesla.com/model3 says 15 cu feet. https://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/vehicles/bolt-ev/2019.tab1.html says 16.9 cu feet behind the 2nd row seat.

Autopilot has a great new feature.

https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/hefd0b/lol_the_cars_ai_thinks_burger_king_is_a_stop_sign/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

I'm curious what the VW ID4 legroom and cargo volume will be, since cargo seems to be a deciding factor for some. Or the same question for the Bolt EUV.

DougWantsALeaf said:

Autopilot has a great new feature.

https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/hefd0b/lol_the_cars_ai_thinks_burger_king_is_a_stop_sign/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

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Funny