GRA
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GCC: 2020 MINI Cooper SE EV comes to US with MSRP of $29,900

Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:41 pm

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/1 ... -mini.html


+ $850 D&H. The article has a long list of features including a heat pump, 50 kW CCS etc., but neglects to mention the pack size/range. However, it says "AC Charging at up to 7.4 kW, which allows for a 100% charge at home in as little as 4 hours", which tells us that the usable pack capacity can't be more than 29.6kWh and is probably less, unless they've over-sized the battery to avoid taper. Obviously an urban commuter only, but does this interest anyone at that price, given higher range options? You could buy an off-lease Bolt for a lot less, or a new 40kWh LEAF.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

SageBrush
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Re: GCC: 2020 MINI Cooper SE EV comes to US with MSRP of $29,900

Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:59 pm

The linked article says that the car will be sold in all 50 states. We'll see, along with actual market prices.
Is the battery actively cooled ?
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

GRA
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Re: GCC: 2020 MINI Cooper SE EV comes to US with MSRP of $29,900

Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:22 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:59 pm
The linked article says that the car will be sold in all 50 states. We'll see, along with actual market prices.
Is the battery actively cooled ?
I've been unable to find out, but as it's based on the i3 I'd expect so. I also found an article that claims total pack capacity is 32.6kWh.

BTW, here's an article from June that gets the price wrong, but asks much the same question I did. I mostly agree with his list of the minimum specs which should be expected of a BEV now:
Mini Cooper SE and BMW i3
Steve Birkett's picture
By Steve Birkett Jul 12 2019 - 2:38pm
2020 Mini Cooper SE Raises Questions Over What Should Be the Minimum EV Acceptable Range
https://www.torquenews.com/7893/2020-mi ... c-vehicles
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

SageBrush
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Re: GCC: 2020 MINI Cooper SE EV comes to US with MSRP of $29,900

Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:27 pm

GRA wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:22 pm
SageBrush wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:59 pm
The linked article says that the car will be sold in all 50 states. We'll see, along with actual market prices.
Is the battery actively cooled ?
I've been unable to find out, but as it's based on the i3 I'd expect so. BTW, here's an article from June that gets the price wrong, but asks much the same question I did. I mostly agree with his list of the minimum specs which should be expected of a BEV now.
Minimum specs ... for who ?
For what use case ?
At what price ?
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

GRA
Posts: 12399
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: GCC: 2020 MINI Cooper SE EV comes to US with MSRP of $29,900

Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:31 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:27 pm
GRA wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:22 pm
SageBrush wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:59 pm
The linked article says that the car will be sold in all 50 states. We'll see, along with actual market prices.
Is the battery actively cooled ?
I've been unable to find out, but as it's based on the i3 I'd expect so. BTW, here's an article from June that gets the price wrong, but asks much the same question I did. I mostly agree with his list of the minimum specs which should be expected of a BEV now.
Minimum specs ... for who ?
For what use case ?
At what price ?

For general use. Obviously, people who are willing to settle for a local/commute only car can get away with less, but how big a market is that, especially in the U.S. at that price? $20k new would be one thing, but you can buy a 2017 Bolt for that, and use it for weekend trips too.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

SageBrush
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Re: GCC: 2020 MINI Cooper SE EV comes to US with MSRP of $29,900

Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:40 pm

GRA wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:31 pm
SageBrush wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:27 pm
GRA wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:22 pm


I've been unable to find out, but as it's based on the i3 I'd expect so. BTW, here's an article from June that gets the price wrong, but asks much the same question I did. I mostly agree with his list of the minimum specs which should be expected of a BEV now.
Minimum specs ... for who ?
For what use case ?
At what price ?

For general use. Obviously, people who are willing to settle for a local/commute only car can get away with less, but how big a market is that, especially in the U.S. at that price? $20k new would be one thing, but you can buy a 2017 Bolt for that, and use it for weekend trips too.
A ~ 30 kWh BEV is just about by definition a local/commute car. As chief arbitrator of what everybody needs and wants, do tell us what the minimum specs are for a local/commuter car ?
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

GRA
Posts: 12399
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: GCC: 2020 MINI Cooper SE EV comes to US with MSRP of $29,900

Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:29 pm

^^^ i believe I already gave the most important spec, a price commensurate with capability. I repeat my question: given the available alternatives which provide greater range/size at the same price, or more range/size at a (used) lower price, is there likely to be much of a U.S. market for this car?

Get the price down to $15k and there probably is, but at $30k in 2019 rather than say 2013?
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

LeftieBiker
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Re: GCC: 2020 MINI Cooper SE EV comes to US with MSRP of $29,900

Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:05 pm

You have to be able to sleep in it without your toes touching anything. It has to be able to climb Pike's Peak with 7 adults and 450lbs of luggage without losing more than 10% range. It must have a highway range of at least 20% more than any EV on the market. And it has to have both sun and moon roofs - one or the other is NOT acceptable.
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jjeff
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Re: GCC: 2020 MINI Cooper SE EV comes to US with MSRP of $29,900

Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:12 pm

GRA wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:29 pm
^^^ i believe I already gave the most important spec, a price commensurate with capability. I repeat my question: given the available alternatives which provide greater range/size at the same price, or more range/size at a (used) lower price, is there likely to be much of a U.S. market for this car?

Get the price down to $15k and there probably is, but at $30k in 2019 rather than say 2013?
I guess if you really like the styling of the MINI Cooper and you are ok with it's limited range(which some city dwellers might be) then it might be your car but if maximum range/$$ is on your priority list(or even maximum range period) then no, it probably won't be too popular :)
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GRA
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Re: GCC: 2020 MINI Cooper SE EV comes to US with MSRP of $29,900

Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:19 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:05 pm
You have to be able to sleep in it without your toes touching anything. It has to be able to climb Pike's Peak with 7 adults and 450lbs of luggage without losing more than 10% range. It must have a highway range of at least 20% more than any EV on the market. And it has to have both sun and moon roofs - one or the other is NOT acceptable.


No, no, that's the road trip car, we're talking about the urban commuter. :lol:

OT: However, my personal road trip car requirements are somewhat less, and with slight modifications haven't changed in 30 years or so;

1. Yes on the sleeping space.

2. Trail Ridge Road (12,183' at the summit) in Rocky Mtn. NP with 4 adults and at least 250 lbs. of gear including 4 backpacks, with enough range to do so to/from the nearest QCs driving normally with free use of HVAC plus at least a 30 mile reserve, at any time when the road's open.

3. Highway range of at least 300 miles (with more preferred) to allow me to reach Lee Vining from home (207 miles, or half the range my current 16+ year-old ICE has) over Tioga Pass (ca. 100' to 9,941' then down to 6,780') for at least 12 years, conditions as in #2.

4. No sun/moon roof, just a simple metal roof is all that is needed or wanted.

5. Wagon/CUV body type, with steeply-sloped rear hatch to maximize cargo volume/height in the shortest possible length.

6. AWD.

7. Carriage space for spare (pref. full-size), jack, and tire iron, preferably without taking up any of the cargo area, but at worst with the tire standing upright against the left wall between the rear hatch and the shock tower, where it doesn't block vision to the right rear quarter, and takes up as little floor space in the cargo area as possible.

8. Cargo tie-downs sufficiently robust to prevent the spare above, or heavy, dense cargo such as scuba tanks from flying about in an accident and injuring/killing me or my pax.

9. The fastest possible energy replenishment, with some trading off between range and replenishment speed allowed, but a minimum of 4 hours hwy driving (at western U.S. speeds) with no more than 40 minutes of replenishment to do it again is desired.

10. Controls/displays used during driving to be physical controls, not on touchscreens.

11. Decent or better driving dynamics and performance.

12. Max. length 180" preferred, with 174"-176" strongly preferred.

13. A energy replenishment infrastructure that allows me to access the places I want to drive to, via the routes I wish to take.

14. CR reliability rated as above or much above average.

15. Priced as much below $40k as possible.


I've probably forgotten a few of the minor ones, but I think that's all the major ones, and both of the Subarus I've owned since 1988 could meet most or all of them (the '88 couldn't meet #1 so I had to sleep on a diagonal, which usually left me with a sore leg muscle due to holding myself in position against the inevitable slope and led to me adding req. #1; and I had to use the 2nd option for #7).

There's a large number of ICEs now that can meet all of them (although #10's getting scarcer), but no BEVs as yet although they're getting closer; FCEVs can meet most of them now except for #6, #11 and #13. I have hopes that one or more ZEVs will be able to meet them in the 2020-2022 time frame, and certainly expect one or more to do so by 2025.
Last edited by GRA on Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:28 pm, edited 6 times in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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