Lightyear One

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alozzy

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 20, 2017
Messages
2,616
Location
Vancouver, BC
Some pretty amazing tech innovations with this car! Aside from the solar charging, the in wheel motor tech looks phenomenal:

https://lightyear.one/lightyear-one/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sy5sRXz29MA
 
I tried watching but it's way too infomercial-ly for me. What is so innovative about the motors? My 2009 Vectrix has an integrated wheel motor/transmission. It's very loud and puts out a whopping 23HP...
 
The interviewer is like that in every video I've seen him in (he does EV reviews in the UK) - he likes to ramble. However, the Lightyear CEO provided clear and concise answers RE many aspects of the car, in particular the design intentions. There are some good nuggets of info sprinkled in with the chatty stuff.

Apparently, what's innovative about the motors is their weight to power ratio and inherent cooling capabilities, but I couldn't find any detailed specs on the IWM design. In another video I watched, the head engineer of the IWM mentioned that other IWM motor manufacturers are targeting the ICE retrofit market, whereas Lightyear has custom designed their IWM to fit the design intentions of the Lightyear One specifically.

With an EV this light and efficient, you don't need as much horsepower to accelerate the car. Also, being able to charge, using the solar panels, to offset most people's average daily commute is pretty awesome. I can't afford one of these anyways, but it certainly pushes other manufacturers to innovate.

Spec highlights:


  • Cd=0.20
  • hood, roof and trunk clad with 5 m2 (54 sq ft) of solar panels, which can add 50–65 km (30–40 miles) of range per day during summer (or, 5.0 - 6.5 kWh)
  • all-wheel drive
  • 410 km of cold weather (-10C) range, highway in mild weather range is 570km using a 60.0 kWh pack
  • 100 kWh power, 0 to 60 under 10 seconds
  • Top speed of 150 kph
  • 10 kms of range per kWh! I'm lucky if I get 7 kms/kWh in summer with my 2013 LEAF
  • Curb weight: 1300 kg or 2860 lbs (empty, no passengers)
  • 5 person sedan

For such a large vehicle, with a heavy 60 kWh pack, getting the weight under 3000 lbs is very impressive, as is the 0.20 Cd - for comparison sake, the 2019 Leaf Plus weighs around 3800 lbs and has a .28 Cd and the Model 3 weighs about the same as the LEAF, but with a Cd of .23

Lots more specs here: https://ev-database.org/car/1166/Lightyear-One
 
The big, hard to overcome problem with wheelmotors is the unsprung weight they add. Unless those motors weigh no more than a conventional steel wheel they are going to give the car a heavy, unsettled feel over rough road.
 
An excerpt from this article, RE unsprung weight: https://newyorkars.com/car-news/lightyear-one-solar-car/


...The practice of putting motors in each wheel might raise flags when it comes to unsprung weight. This measurement is comprised of vehicle components not supported by the suspension of the vehicle, including the wheels. Adding electric motors adds unsprung weight, which compromises performance. In a video from Fully Charged, Hoefsloot addresses this concern, stating that since the car was designed from the beginning to use motors in the wheels, they were able to “integrate the suspension very well with the motor and the rim to reduce weight.” He concludes by saying that the system is “marginally more heavy” than what you get on a normal car...
 
alozzy said:
An excerpt from this article, RE unsprung weight: https://newyorkars.com/car-news/lightyear-one-solar-car/


...The practice of putting motors in each wheel might raise flags when it comes to unsprung weight. This measurement is comprised of vehicle components not supported by the suspension of the vehicle, including the wheels. Adding electric motors adds unsprung weight, which compromises performance. In a video from Fully Charged, Hoefsloot addresses this concern, stating that since the car was designed from the beginning to use motors in the wheels, they were able to “integrate the suspension very well with the motor and the rim to reduce weight.” He concludes by saying that the system is “marginally more heavy” than what you get on a normal car...


The proof of that pudding would be in a test drive over a "washboard" surface...
 
There's a reason why no auto manufacturer has used hub motors in a production on road highway capable vehicle.
Actually there's probably a half dozen reasons.

Ok, so hub motors are so heavy designers who want to use them have to cheat and forgo the traditional tire on rim combo.
So when you get a flat tire just pull the whole armature off to change a tire?
Obviously on some specialty, proprietary and very expensive tire changing equipment.
Oh and forget about having a spare.

For comparison, my leaf with my tool bags, spare tire, jack, evse and associated extension/adapter cords "does 0-60 in under 10 seconds". It doesn't get over 10 seconds until I put the trailer on.
 
The graphic on the website appears to show a traditional rim bolted to the hub motor. There are drawbacks, but also benefits to hub motors. No differential, no half-shafts, no CV joints, fully independent control of torque to each wheel.
 
The vapor ware image of the wheel assembly going on the hub motor is at least a year old.

Now the dude is saying something about “integrating the suspension very well with the motor and the rim to reduce weight". This is a new statement.
I dont know about you but to me that sounds like integration of the rim and motor some how to save weight.

If "the hub motor is better" why has no manufacturer made a highway capable hub motor car?

If it can't do what a tesla already does how is it better?

I remember back around 2010 it seemed like all the big car makers wanted to be the first to offer a hub motor car. DoD was trialing a hub motor super quiet hmmwv.
Then hub motor enthusiasm just kind of died.
 
Hub motors are well known and widely used in the electric bicycle and motorcycle worlds. They aren't considered to be new tech, or even great tech. Putting the motor in the wheel also means that if you hit a curb you are slapping a wheel motor upside the head - HARD. This is why you are seeing motors inboard of the wheels on most EVs.
 
Hub motors seem fine for bikes and big slow moving industrial and mining equipment.

For hub motors it seems that vehicle mass and vehicle speed have to remain inversely proportional, if you want it to last.
 
It will be interesting to see the initials test drives of EVs with light weight IWMs, as their relative simplicity of design and efficiency make a lot of sense as long as the unsprung weight they add is not too large.

Time will tell...
 
GCR:
Lightyear One solar-supplemented EV now claims to vbe most aerodynamic car
https://www.greencarreports.com/new...nted-ev-now-claims-to-be-most-aerodynamic-car

Cd below 0.20. IIRR, wasn't the EV1 0.19? What I don't understand is this statement:
The company claims the One is capable of going 400 miles on a single charge under ideal (read: sunny) conditions, versus just 250 miles otherwise, due in part to its ability to replenish 7.5 miles of range per hour from the sun alone.

So, let's see 150 miles / (7.5miles/hr). is 20 hours of solar charging. That statement is a bunch of crapola.
 
If you know anything about fixed panels it's that you don't get full output throughout the day.
This car is super vape.
 
The full quote from the article wiggles around the EV1 having a lower Cd:
With the results as they stand, Lightyear One will likely be the most aerodynamic car available in the market.

As for the extra 150 miles of range, they only said "on a single charge", not in a single day. They've got a good marketing wordsmith.

It could be technically true, but not at all useful for use on a trip. If true, it would boost the local range significantly.

I will still wait for demonstrable proof before I completely believe their charging rates in real world conditions.
 
Here's an interesting technical talk the CTO gave earlier this year.
https://www.mathworks.com/videos/model-based-optimization-of-a-solar-powered-car-1562181387424.html
 
jlv said:
<snip>

As for the extra 150 miles of range, they only said "on a single charge", not in a single day. They've got a good marketing wordsmith.

It could be technically true, but not at all useful for use on a trip. If true, it would boost the local range significantly.

I will still wait for demonstrable proof before I completely believe their charging rates in real world conditions.


No, that doesn't work either. The battery only provides 250 miles of range. If you're not limiting the car to a single charge period but can allow it to stretch over multiple days, then you could theoretically add another 250 miles of range, not 150. I'm assuming that this car isn't being driven inside the arctic/antarctic circles, and even if it were the sun's so low there that top-mounted panels will deliver only a fraction of their output at lower latitudes, due to both the oblique angle of the sun to them, and the greater amount of atmosphere the photons have to pass through, never mind weather.
 
GCR:
Lightyear One solar electric car aims to "leapfrog the grid"
https://www.greencarreports.com/new...-solar-electric-car-aims-to-leapfrog-the-grid

. . . According to a company announcement last week, Johan Vos, a former Tesla senior director tasked with Model 3 rollout in Europe, has been appointed to lead the firm toward a market launch during a period of scaling up at the company. That includes setting a delivery and service strategy.

Lightyear is one of the first to claim dynamic gains due to its solar cells. Rather than just a few extra miles from being parked in the sun all day, the firm says it can recover 7.5 miles from each hour. It can also DC fast charge at up to 60 kw, likely on the CCS standard. . . .

In a recent post, Lightyear says that by being so efficient and emphasizing solar, it can “leapfrog the grid”—effectively limiting the need to invest in more power plants, reinforce the grid, or set up heavier home chargers or more fast-charging stations. In doing so, it's aiming to be more efficient than the most efficient electric passenger cars. Today, that's vehicles from Tesla.

According to European Union documents, Lightyear has secured 30 million euros of private funding—or 25 percent of the estimated amount of developing the car. As of this summer it reported having about 150 employees, but to get anywhere close to the point of service and delivery, it may well need many more like Vos, with experience in market disruption.


In other"if wishes were kisses" news, also GCR:
LA region wants 80 percent of new vehicle sales to be electric by 2028
https://www.greencarreports.com/new...t-of-new-vehicle-sales-to-be-electric-by-2028


(Borrowed from Woody's Allen's early film "What's Up, Tiger Lily", the precursor for every "Downfall" Youtube parody with new dialogue ever made:

"If enough of you in the audience believe in fairies, my gun will be magically reloaded with bullets."

And it was.
 
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