SageBrush
Posts: 5398
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: The RAV-4 PHEV Topic

Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:02 pm

danrjones wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:52 pm
I haven't driven a Tesla but don't they ONLY do regen on one pedal driving? That is, if you hit the brake, it never uses regen?
No
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

cwerdna
Posts: 11337
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: The RAV-4 PHEV Topic

Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:09 pm

danrjones wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:52 pm
I haven't driven a Tesla but don't they ONLY do regen on one pedal driving? That is, if you hit the brake, it never uses regen?
I think that was only true on the original Roadster.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

GRA
Posts: 12399
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: The RAV-4 PHEV Topic

Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:08 pm

WetEV wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:52 am
GRA wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:25 pm
Re subsidies, without them, perks like SO HOV stickers, free parking and no tills, and government mandates or ZEV zones, BEV sales would similarly dry up. All AFV sales remain dependent on one or more of the above, except those sold to people for whom transportation value for the dollar is of little or no concern.
BS and off topic. Bicycle has better "transportation value per dollar", how many people are cycling to work?
In places where they can't afford cars or public transport, and walking takes too long, lots of them. As the U. S. has a high median income, more people can afford to drive (and we can afford the roads and other support infrastructure to make driving quick and convenient).

WetEV wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:52 am
Transportation is more than getting from A to B. iMiev was probably the cheapest car new car to own for many in the PNW in 2011, and did many sell? No.
What you're really saying is that people who can afford to buy cars do so for more than one reason, many of them unrelated to utilitarian transportation. I've never disputed that. OTOH, I suspect a lot of Corollas were bought in the PNW in 2011. Do you suppose that people didn't buy iMiEVs because they imposed too many limitations on the vehicle's flexibility? At the time, if I had needed a car just for commuting, an iMiEV might have been fine, provided I had somewhere to charge it. But I'd need another car for every trip beyond its capabilities, which is virtually all of them in my case. And given the dearth of public charging in 2011, an iMiEV would be inadequate for most trips for most people.

WetEV wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:52 am
GRA wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:25 pm
BTW, my ICE is rated at 27 HWY (25 under the current test regimen), and I normally get 28-30 on trips, which constitute 90-95% of my usage.
Almost the reverse of the average American usage. 85% trip miles under 100 miles.

Image

https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformat ... fig4_5.cfm

GRA should drive an ICE.
Yup, or a low-AER (~25 mile) PHEV, or (given adequate fueling infrastructure) an FCEV. At the moment a BEV represents a collosal time suck and route restriction on my trips, even if the charging infrastructure were 100% reliable as gas stations essentially are. I went 3 for 11 in my attempts to activate QCs on my recent Bolt trip, and would have been stranded 200+ miles from home if I hadn't had access to L2s that didn't require activation.

WetEV wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:52 am
So back to PHEVs. They make sense if you have long trips beyond easy BEV infrastructure AND have lots of short trips in battery range. Your four yearly trips to Sleeping Buffalo, Montana will be just as easy as if you had an ICE, and you daily trips will be just as nice as if you had a BEV.

A BEV would be better if you have lots of short trips and few trips beyond range into places with reasonable BEV infrastructure.

Hydrogen might make sense for long distance trucking.

The cheapest way of getting there is likely walking, bicycle or bus.
With the exception of limiting H2 to trucking, we agree.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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