jjeff
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Re: The RAV-4 PHEV Topic

Thu Nov 21, 2019 6:43 am

GRA wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:55 pm
Man, depending on the price and the handling, a PHEV just moved higher in consideration for me. I still wish it were a bit smaller, but otherwise . . . Of course, I'll still have to wait out the people with money burning holes in the pockets who are willing to pay an ADM, and in any case I prefer not to buy a car in its first year of availability so the company can work out some of the bugs. It may be 2021 before I decide, and there may be other options by then, but this really puts the Outlander and Crosstrek PHEVs in the shade, even if they hadn't just lost their CVRP eligibility.
I have no issue on the size, personally I'd prefer something larger than say the Kona or Niro, maybe not up to the size of the current Highlander but this isn't. You have a good point on the first-year bugs or even first years design issues, I mean even Nissan figured out a couple first years issues with the Leaf that made the '13's and on quite a bit better than the first 2 years models.....maybe not as many issues as they could have fixed but still a decent improvement. Yes the RAV-4 seems to have eliminated many of shortcomings of the Outlander and Crosstrek PHEVs and as a current Toyota owner of a 10+ year old Prius that hasn't really had any issues in that 10+ years, Toyota reliability weighs high in my mind. And before the Prius I drove my Scion(Toyota) Xb for over 10 years with NO issues(other than oil changes and minimal maintenance) so another + for Toyota reliability. I had more issues with my Nissan in the first year than I had with both my Toyotas in the 20 years total I had with them :idea:
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
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Titanium48
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:33 am
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Location: Edmonton, AB

Re: The RAV-4 PHEV Topic

Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:03 pm

jjeff wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 6:28 am
...
Another advantage of more HP is the ability to tow more, wonder if the RAV4 will be tow rated? shame if it's not with all that HP, even 2500lbs(3500 would be better) would do it for me. Now I understand, any vehicle can tow, case in point my new '94 1L(3-cyl) 69hp Geo Metro I had a 1000lb 100lb tongue weight hitch installed(not rated by Chevy) and occasionally towed such weights, but I'm talking about mfg rated.
Overall I'm quite excited and will be more excited if I see ICE only MPG approaching 40, love the fact it has a heat pump and +30 mile EV range, both which the PHEV Outlander lacks, add heated seats and steering wheel and something I can fit into and price it under $40k after rebates or tax credits and I think I know what my next vehicle will be :)
The tow rating will be a big deal for me. If they stay with the 680 kg of the current RAV 4 hybrid, it's just another oversized Volt. If they give us the full 1580 kg that some of the ICE RAV4s are rated for, it might replace my Outback one day.

I thought the Metro engine was 55 hp, not 69, but either way it was a blast to drive. Made you feel like a race driver just keeping up with traffic.
I'd really like to see an EV that size - you could probably get close to 200 km out of 20 kWh, and sell it for under $20k.
2016 SL

jjeff
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Re: The RAV-4 PHEV Topic

Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:29 pm

Titanium48 wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:03 pm
I thought the Metro engine was 55 hp, not 69, but either way it was a blast to drive. Made you feel like a race driver just keeping up with traffic.
I'd really like to see an EV that size - you could probably get close to 200 km out of 20 kWh, and sell it for under $20k.
The even more fuel-efficient XFI was 55hp, I had the more powerful 5-door 69 hp model :D With it's stick it wasn't too bad but the rental car 3 speed auto was a real dog! At it's <1700 lbs weight(1690lbs I believe) it didn't have a lot to pull around and ya if an EV would have went a long way even with a small battery. Unfortunately the trade-off of being so light was everything was very thin gauge metal and when the frame eventually rusted through(lasted days past 10 years) there was no way to fix it or anything to weld onto, had to scrap it out with less than 80k on the clock and interior like new :( oh the little 3 cyl was also like new, never burnt a drop of oid between it's 3k miles I'd change the oil.
In hind site the Metro was probably a death trap, no air bags and under 1700lbs :shock: by comparison the Leaf is an extremely safe vehicle and something like this RAV-4 is bound to be even better!
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
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'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

Titanium48
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:33 am
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Location: Edmonton, AB

Re: The RAV-4 PHEV Topic

Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:52 pm

Yes, the Metro definitely needed the manual transmission. Not sure why anyone bought the Metro with the automatic when it added 15% to the price of the car and completely took away the fun factor.
As for safety, my Metro met an untimely end when I took a corner too fast and slid off the road into the trees at 80 km/h. Car was obviously totalled, but we walked away with nothing worse than cuts from broken glass.
2016 SL

DougWantsALeaf
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Re: The RAV-4 PHEV Topic

Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:53 pm

I think this was a great move on Toyota's part. They are still some distance from any sort of line of full EVs (yes, I know a Lexus was announced, but haven't seen hard timing yet). Rav-4 is very popular and already very efficient in the hybrid form. With AWD, it offers something only the Outlander has been able to offer, but with significantly better non-ev efficiency. If Mitsubishi could both offer better EPA gas efficiency and a 3rd row in PHEV form, they would push out ahead again.

Similar to Nissan Leaf (which I have a plus), it feels like they lost their internal champions to innovate the product and stay ahead. Fat and Lazy syndrome. Taking a nap when only up by a field goal.
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GRA
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Re: The RAV-4 PHEV Topic

Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:17 pm

jjeff wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 6:43 am
GRA wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:55 pm
Man, depending on the price and the handling, a PHEV just moved higher in consideration for me. I still wish it were a bit smaller, but otherwise . . . Of course, I'll still have to wait out the people with money burning holes in the pockets who are willing to pay an ADM, and in any case I prefer not to buy a car in its first year of availability so the company can work out some of the bugs. It may be 2021 before I decide, and there may be other options by then, but this really puts the Outlander and Crosstrek PHEVs in the shade, even if they hadn't just lost their CVRP eligibility.
I have no issue on the size, personally I'd prefer something larger than say the Kona or Niro, maybe not up to the size of the current Highlander but this isn't. You have a good point on the first-year bugs or even first years design issues, I mean even Nissan figured out a couple first years issues with the Leaf that made the '13's and on quite a bit better than the first 2 years models.....maybe not as many issues as they could have fixed but still a decent improvement. Yes the RAV-4 seems to have eliminated many of shortcomings of the Outlander and Crosstrek PHEVs and as a current Toyota owner of a 10+ year old Prius that hasn't really had any issues in that 10+ years, Toyota reliability weighs high in my mind. And before the Prius I drove my Scion(Toyota) Xb for over 10 years with NO issues(other than oil changes and minimal maintenance) so another + for Toyota reliability. I had more issues with my Nissan in the first year than I had with both my Toyotas in the 20 years total I had with them :idea:

For me, my soon-to-be 17 y.o. 2003 Forester is plenty big enough to do everything I need: 175" x 68" x 65" vs. the RAV4's 181-2" x 73" x 67-69". I tried the Niro and it would work for me: 172" x 71" x 61". The length with the rear seats folded is fine, but I'd prefer to have more length in the cargo area with the rear seats up. They could do this in the Niro by moving the rear seats and rear axle forward some - even though the Niro's 3+ inches shorter than my Forester it has a longer wheelbase, 106.3" vs. 99.4", which boosts the rear passenger legroom (adequate and rarely needed by me in my Forester) to exceptional, but shortens the tailgate to seat back length, which is more valuable for me. Like your Toyotas I've never had to do anything other than scheduled maintenance to the Forester, although it only has 68k mostly highway miles on it. My '88 Subie Turbo wagon was another matter, as the timing belts needed replacement every 40k miles or so and there were a few other unscheduled maintenance actions.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

EatsShootsandLeafs
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Re: The RAV-4 PHEV Topic

Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:17 am

All that (e.g. heated front seats standard) and supposedly a price point in low 30's Toyota knocked it out of the park with this. For us it would let us do most miles in EV, with of course zero range anxiety. Meanwhile, very aggressive acceleration (shocked they hit 302 HP with this!), full AWD, decent size. Toyota's battery warranty is now 150k.

This will come in way cheaper than the mustang or the Y, with Toyota quality.

Still has a spare tire.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0YgGMlsMOc

Really an impressive looking package at this price.

Titanium48
Posts: 148
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Location: Edmonton, AB

Re: The RAV-4 PHEV Topic

Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:32 pm

From Toyota Canada's press release:
https://www.toyota.ca/toyota/en/about/n ... rav4-prime
it can drive an estimated 60 kilometres on battery alone on a single charge, which is the highest EV range of any PHEV SUV on the market. The RAV4 Prime also has a manufacturer-estimated 2.6 Le/100 km fuel consumption.
That works out to about 14 kWh useable, and likely over 15 kWh nominal. Over 15 kWh would qualify it for the full $5000 EV incentive in Canada (provided the base price stays under $45k).

Toyota engineered the 2021 RAV4 Prime for the performance-oriented driver and is therefore offering it in the sporty SE and XSE grades. The SE grade is new for the RAV4 Prime, and the XSE is currently exclusive to the RAV4 Hybrid. The SE flaunts its sporty attitude with 18-inch painted and machined alloy wheels and an exclusive front grille design and front lower spoiler.
Don't like the sound of that. Way too much prioritization of "sport" over "utility". I want a real tow package, not oversize wheels and other useless bling.
2016 SL

GRA
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Re: The RAV-4 PHEV Topic

Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:32 pm

Titanium48 wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:32 pm
From Toyota Canada's press release:
https://www.toyota.ca/toyota/en/about/n ... rav4-prime

Toyota engineered the 2021 RAV4 Prime for the performance-oriented driver and is therefore offering it in the sporty SE and XSE grades. The SE grade is new for the RAV4 Prime, and the XSE is currently exclusive to the RAV4 Hybrid. The SE flaunts its sporty attitude with 18-inch painted and machined alloy wheels and an exclusive front grille design and front lower spoiler.
Don't like the sound of that. Way too much prioritization of "sport" over "utility". I want a real tow package, not oversize wheels and other useless bling.

But, but how else can boost their profit margin except by charging you for a bunch of high-profit options you don't want or need, if they don't bundle them into a trim package that forces you to take them? :roll:
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

LeftieBiker
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Re: The RAV-4 PHEV Topic

Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:41 pm

My only question at this point is "Heated steering wheel?" I know it has a heat pump.
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