GRA
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Re: TSLA corporate outlook

Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:41 pm

Via IEVS:
The Woz No Longer Believes “Anything Elon Musk Or Tesla Says”
https://insideevs.com/the-woz-no-longer ... esla-says/
  • “Now, I don’t believe anything Elon Musk or Tesla says. But I still love the car.”
Why the lack of belief? Well, it seems to boil down to promised Autopilot capabilities that still don’t exist today. Woz stated:
  • “Then they came up with some sensors that Elon Musk said would drive itself across itself the country by the end of 2016.”

    “Oh, I had to have that.”

    “And then … they got rid of their sensor company and put in new sensors — instead of one camera, eight cameras.”
With these new sensors the promise to “drive itself across the country by the end of 2017” was announced. That still hasn’t happened and Wozniak now seems to believe this self-driving capability will never come. He’s put off by the fact that other automakers have leapfrogged Tesla in regards to autonomous capabilities. One study places Tesla dead last in autonomous-drive.

Musk’s latest statements on self-driving and this cross-country trip indicate it may happen in early 2018. But as recently as December, Musk admitted it probably wouldn’t, so another delay was basically announced.

Quoting Wozniak:
  • What he says, can you really believe in him? Is he just a good salesman, like Jobs…”
As for the state of Tesla’s Autopilot capabilities, Wozniak remarked:
  • “When a Tesla runs into any condition on a highway that is a little unusual — a cone in the middle of a lane — you have to move over. A dumb human or a smart human can easily do it, but the Tesla can’t.”

    “Man, you’ve got to be on your toes all the time with it.”

    “All Tesla says is, ‘It’s beta, so we’re not responsible — you have to be in control. So that’s kind of a cheap way out of it. Everything I’ve read told me that every other car manufacturer in the world — Audi and BMW — are actually ahead of Tesla for self-driving cars.”
Though he still owns a Tesla, Woz says he Chevy Bolt is his daily driver:
  • “…we always drive the Chevy Bolt EV instead of the Tesla, every day.”
Ouch. That's what continually over-promising and under-delivering will do to your credibility. Elon/Tesla really need to shut up and get the Model 3 squared away, before the occasional rumbles of discontent as above become legion.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

finman100
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Re: TSLA corporate outlook

Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:58 am

or one can ignore such a has-been, shutting up all the Tesla nay-sayers. good grief it's sad that people want Tesla to fail. get over yourselves and move on to all those EV companies doing things better.
Albany, Oregon
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Nubo
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Re: TSLA corporate outlook

Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:07 pm

finman100 wrote:or one can ignore such a has-been, shutting up all the Tesla nay-sayers. good grief it's sad that people want Tesla to fail. get over yourselves and move on to all those EV companies doing things better.
A Tesla failure wouldn't be good for EVs in general. Which is why legitimate criticism and scrutiny is actually important for Tesla.

After the last couple of years in general I hope most folks are learning to distinguish legitimate criticism from agitprop, trolls, profiteers or axe-grinders.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

finman100
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Re: TSLA corporate outlook

Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:03 pm

ah, there it is. legitimate. key word. thanks for the heads up.

And Nissan's degrading battery packs and complete loss of value is NOT bad for EVs? Not too much time spent delving into those failures. sure, sure. move on.
Albany, Oregon
2014 Silver SV with charge/LED package. June 2014, I'm in the EV game!
46,000 miles
17.5 kWh on 100% charge (51-ish Ah), down 1 bar
4.2 miles/kWh average
Best trip: all of 'em. They're all no-gas!

GRA
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Re: TSLA corporate outlook

Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:40 pm

finman100 wrote:ah, there it is. legitimate. key word. thanks for the heads up.

And Nissan's degrading battery packs and complete loss of value is NOT bad for EVs? Not too much time spent delving into those failures. sure, sure. move on.
You've got to be kidding :roll: The LEAF has fanbois who can see no problems just as Tesla does, but they hardly make up the majority of posters here. Most of us fervently want PEVs to succeed, but aren't willing to turn a blind eye to continuing problems when they need to be addressed in order to raise the odds of PEV success. BTW, are you suggesting I'm one of the people who want Tesla to fail?
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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Nubo
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Re: TSLA corporate outlook

Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:34 pm

finman100 wrote:...And Nissan's degrading battery packs and complete loss of value is NOT bad for EVs?
I haven't argued otherwise. I hope you're not putting my name on that straw man.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

cwerdna
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Re: TSLA corporate outlook

Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:42 pm

GRA wrote:
finman100 wrote:ah, there it is. legitimate. key word. thanks for the heads up.

And Nissan's degrading battery packs and complete loss of value is NOT bad for EVs? Not too much time spent delving into those failures. sure, sure. move on.
You've got to be kidding :roll: The LEAF has fanbois who can see no problems just as Tesla does, but they hardly make up the majority of posters here. Most of us fervently want PEVs to succeed, but aren't willing to turn a blind eye to continuing problems when they need to be addressed in order to raise the odds of PEV success. BTW, are you suggesting I'm one of the people who want Tesla to fail?
Regarding the part I bolded in GRA's post, among those who are at least semi-active on MNL, I'd say the numbers of those fanbois are in the single digits, possibly as low as 1.

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Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

GRA
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Re: TSLA corporate outlook

Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:47 pm

cwerdna wrote:
GRA wrote:
finman100 wrote:ah, there it is. legitimate. key word. thanks for the heads up.

And Nissan's degrading battery packs and complete loss of value is NOT bad for EVs? Not too much time spent delving into those failures. sure, sure. move on.
You've got to be kidding :roll: The LEAF has fanbois who can see no problems just as Tesla does, but they hardly make up the majority of posters here. Most of us fervently want PEVs to succeed, but aren't willing to turn a blind eye to continuing problems when they need to be addressed in order to raise the odds of PEV success. BTW, are you suggesting I'm one of the people who want Tesla to fail?
Regarding the part I bolded in GRA's post, among those who are at least semi-active on MNL, I'd say the numbers of those fanbois are in the single digits, possibly as low as 1.
I'd probably put it at 3, but I imagine we'd come up with the same names. OTOH, IMO #1 isn't a fanboi, they're a shill.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

cwerdna
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Re: TSLA corporate outlook

Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:20 pm

^^^
Hmmm, that’s probably a better way to put it. I think I know who you might be thinking of as the Leaf shill. :)

And, to be clear, I’m not counting anyone who is a Nissan corporate employee (or at least anyone who has self-identified themselves as one). Fortunately, IIRC, the Nissan corporate employees posting here have not exhibited fanboyish behavior.
Last edited by cwerdna on Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:19 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

GRA
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Re: TSLA corporate outlook

Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:40 pm

cwerdna wrote:^^^
Hmmm, that’s probably a better way to put it. I think I know who you might be thinking of as the Leaf shill. :)
I imagine anyone who's been here from the Phoenix test and later reports of LEAF battery problems mentally pictures the same poster. ;)
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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