Official Hyundai Ioniq 5 topic

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FWIW, as I think I've mentioned before, my mom's 07 Nissan Altima Hybrid (aka NAH) has references all over the place to HEV.

Although not that commonly used, HEV is an industry standard term and even listed at places like the below:
https://afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/electric.html
https://www.anl.gov/es/light-duty-electric-drive-vehicles-monthly-sales-updates
https://www.bts.gov/content/gasoline-hybrid-and-electric-vehicle-sales
https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy08osti/42469.pdf on page 5
https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/effect_of_electric_drive_vehicle_technologies-811668.pdf
 
Yes, there are several standard definitions. What GRA was trying to pass off as an "EV" is in fact a "HEV," and what is referred to as an "EV" or "BEV" does not include an internal combustion engine.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Yes, there are several standard definitions. What GRA was trying to pass off as an "EV" is in fact a "HEV," and what is referred to as an "EV" or "BEV" does not include an internal combustion engine.


I'm not trying to 'pass something off as an EV'. a Prius is a specific sub-type of EV, an "Hybrid _Electric Vehicle_". Is a Plug-in Hybrid _Electric Vehicle_ not an EV to you?

"Electric Vehicle" has a very specific meaning: any vehicle propelled partly or solely by the action of an electric motor(s)*. Where the electricity supply for that motor originates or is generated determines the sub-type of EV. I know many use the term EV loosely to mean 'BEV' or at least 'PEV', often with the intent of denying that not only HEVs but FCEVs and in some cases PHEVs are also 'EVs', despite 'EV' being part of the acronym describing each of them.

This is a case where terminology matters - if you mean to restrict your meaning to BEVs, then use that term or I'll point it out when (as in this case) it matters. You can take comfort in the fact that I don't feel the need to do so on every occasion, as cwerdna does with kW/kWh ;)


*Plus Maglevs and any other exotic electric propulsion tech.
 
Canadian pricing:

Essential (58 kWh, RWD): $44,999 CAD
Preferred (58 kWh, RWD): $46,999 CAD
Preferred Long Range (77.4 kWh, RWD): $51,999 CAD
Preferred AWD Long Range (77.4 kWh, AWD): $54,999 CAD
Preferred AWD LR/Ultimate Package (77.4 kWh, AWD): $59,999CAD


https://insideevs.com/news/545577/hyundai-ioniq5-prices-canada/
 
IEVS for the EV6. I think we need an EV6 topic now:
Kia EV6 Becomes Charging King In Bjørn's 1,000 Km Challenge
The range is not as high as in Teslas but fast charging compensates a lot.

https://insideevs.com/news/550811/kia-ev6-bjorn-1000km-challenge/


The Kia EV6, in the all-wheel-drive GT-Line version with a 77.4 kWh battery, has achieved a very good result in the Bjørn Nyland 1,000 km challenge.

The car was able to cover the distance in 9 hours and 55 minutes (after deducting some time losses), at an average speed of over 100 km/h (62 mph), including charging.

That's an outstanding result, especially considering the low temperature of 6°C, which increases energy consumption and lowers range (requires more charging).

The car had to stop for charging five times, but because the very fast charging capabilities (at up to over 230 kW), those were fairly short breaks.

Bjørn Nyland notes lack of time to really go buy and eat something during short charging stops. He even called the Kia EV6 the charging king. Frankly, the charging capabilities were key to the result, as the range of the Kia EV6 is not as high as some of the Tesla cars with a comparable time. . . .

When comparing the Kia EV6's result with the Hyundai Ioniq 5 (see full report here) it's 5 minutes quicker, despite much colder weather. The Kia EV6 has also a slightly bigger battery (77.4 kWh vs 72.6 kWh), which gives it a little better start.

When comparing the Kia EV6 with the top Tesla cars, we can see that Tesla's main advantage is much lower energy consumption. It not only allows to have a greater initial range, but then also charge less along the way.

Anyway, the Kia EV6 beats almost all of the EVs on the market

est conditions:

Start: 100% State of Charge (SOC)
Temperatures: 6-7°C (6°C on average)
Total time: 9 hours and 55 minutes
Average speed (total): 100.8 km/h (63 mph)
Average energy consumption: 263 Wh/km (423 Wh/mile)
Number of stops for charging: 5
Date / Notes: 15.11.2021

Charging stops:

1. Charging: after 256 km (159 miles)
2. Charging: after 363 km (226 miles)
3. Charging: after 511 km (318 miles)
4. Charging: after 661 km (411 miles)
5. Charging: after 896 km (557 miles)


There's a bar graph comparing all the cars.
 
GCR:
Hyundai ioniq 5, Kia EV6 top 300 miles of EPA range, beat all rivals except Tesla Model Y in efficiency

https://www.greencarreports.com/new...-5-kia-ev6-top-300-miles-epa-range-efficiency


. . . They've both also boasted of the capability for DC fast-charging from 10% to 80% in as little as 18 minutes.

With ratings released on Monday, the Ioniq 5 and EV6 just got their first, early indication on where they’ll stand on that efficiency point—and specifically, on range.

The good news is that in both cases, in their longest-legged rear-wheel-drive long-range versions, the Ioniq 5 and EV6 both top 300 miles of range.

The quirky 2022 Hyundai Ioniq 5 earns an EPA range rating of 303 miles in that combination, while shifting to the dual-motor version and all-wheel drive drops the range rating to 256 miles.

So far, Hyundai has only said that it will offer the Ioniq 5’s largest pack, at 77.4 kwh. But with a smaller 58-kwh battery and rear-wheel drive, the Ioniq 5 earns a very respectable 220 miles.

The 2022 Kia EV6, which looks a bit more conventionally aerodynamic, does slightly better. It earns an EPA-rated 310 miles of range in its rear-wheel-drive long-range form, with the same 77.4-kwh battery pack. In all-wheel-drive long-range form, it’s rated at 274 miles. With the smaller 58-kwh battery, in single-motor form, it goes 232 miles.

Efficiency for the EV6 models rates at 105 MPGe (3.1 miles per kwh) for the all-wheel-drive model and 117 MPGe (3.4 mi/kwh) for both single-motor models. As for the Ioniq 5, it ranges from 98 MPGe (2.9 mi/kwh) for the big-battery, dual-motor model up to 114 MPGe (3.3 mi/kwh) for the big-battery, single-motor version. Note that the range is calculated with a different method than the efficiency.

While that's better than the Ford Mustang Mach-E, neither of the models measure up in efficiency to the Hyundai Kona Electric, which is a full size smaller but achieves 120 MPGe (nearly 3.7 mi/kwh) combined—or to the Tesla Model Y, which is about the same size and form factor of both of these low-slung crossovers. In its Long Range form, the Model Y is rated at 326 miles of range and earns an efficiency rating of 125 MPGe combined, or 3.7 mi/kwh.

First deliveries of the Ioniq 5 are due by the end of the year. Meanwhile, the EV6 isn’t arriving until early next year. While it’s unusual to see an entire model line show up in the EPA ratings potentially months before they’re reaching dealerships, the paperwork for it might have been submitted at the same time as that for the Ioniq 5, as the parent company of Hyundai and Kia has done at various times before when there’s a high level of carryover between models. . . .


Range of the AWD versions is inadequate for me although the fast charging partially offsets that, and I'll definitely be looking at and/or test driving both, and hope to rent one or the other on Turo for a more realistic test trip.

BTW, am I the only person who thinks that the Ioniq 5 looks like a super-sized VW Golf? Not a bad thing, just saying.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
Does the 2 vs 5 epa cycle test choice affect the MPGe rating, or is that apples to apples?
It affects the result, and the manufacturer picks the protocol that gives the better result.
So far as I know, the only way to know which protocol the manufacturer used is to look up the CSI report on the EPA website

The other very good approach to picking a winter EV car is to see if Bjorn Nyland has tested the car in the cold in one of his long drives. His spreadsheet of EV tests is really a treasure. People with spreadsheet skills can make a copy and his sheets and then view the data as they like. Here is the range test sliced to only show winter at 120 kph: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pWVt9y8iHmAijPZxLkB35XNdlFYEJ2kutyw5f2H1hoc/edit?usp=sharing

Keep in mind though that the EPA does not test DC charging and any EV that does not pre-condition the battery pack in the cold winter is at a severe disadvantage as a winter car for long trips. In the USA today that is only Tesla, but surely other manufacturers will eventually catch up. This is not an MPGe question, but it sure matters a lot.
 
And I still haven't been contacted about my pre order for the Ioniq 5....

Well, I was called months ago if I had any questions. They didn't know anything we already didn't know.

But no contact on anything regarding converting an order into a sale, trim, prices etc...
 
GRA said:
LeftieBiker said:
Yes, there are several standard definitions. What GRA was trying to pass off as an "EV" is in fact a "HEV," and what is referred to as an "EV" or "BEV" does not include an internal combustion engine.
I'm not trying to 'pass something off as an EV'. a Prius is a specific sub-type of EV, an "Hybrid _Electric Vehicle_". Is a Plug-in Hybrid _Electric Vehicle_ not an EV to you?

I also find GRA to be disingenuous. To avoid confusion I usually use these terms:

HEV/hybrid
PHEV/plug-in hybrid
BEV
*EV to mean any of the above.

The media is slowly catching on. They now expect manufacturers to say 'electric' for BEV, and 'electrified' for either HEV or PHEV. The split highlights whether the car has an ICE.
 
GRA said:
LeftieBiker said:
Yes, there are several standard definitions. What GRA was trying to pass off as an "EV" is in fact a "HEV," and what is referred to as an "EV" or "BEV" does not include an internal combustion engine.
I'm not trying to 'pass something off as an EV'. a Prius is a specific sub-type of EV, an "Hybrid _Electric Vehicle_". Is a Plug-in Hybrid _Electric Vehicle_ not an EV to you?

No, I don't consider a PHEV a true EV. It's kind of like adding a small gasoline engine to supplement a steam car engine (where the boiler is heated using coal) - yes, you get more power and range, but you're still burning coal! Proverbial lipstick on a pig...

AFAIK, PHEV's are over engineered, complex contraptions for fence sitters and a giant repair bill waiting to happen. Personally, I would never buy one.

Even accounting for coal fired generation and other non-renewable energy sources for electricity, getting everyone on BEVs ASAP will build the momentum needed to address automobile CO2 emissions in a meaningful way. Once the majority of car owners are driving EVs, that will put huge political pressure on eliminating all non-renewable energy sources.
 
alozzy said:
AFAIK, PHEV's are over engineered, complex contraptions for fence sitters and a giant repair bill waiting to happen. Personally, I would never buy one.

Toyota makes reliable PHEV, an extension of their HEV experience. At least for my use case, I don't really find them to be good value. Rather than pay for and lug around an ICE for rare use, I would buy an inexpensive commuter EV and rent something else for the few days days a year needed.

**maybe** a PHEV makes sense for trucks, but I'm going the CUV EV + hitch route instead.
 
SageBrush said:
Toyota makes reliable PHEV, an extension of their HEV experience.

In general, Toyota's are the exception rather than the norm when it comes to reliability. I still wouldn't buy a Prius though.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Our experience with a PIP suggests that one should only get a PHEV if the ICE will be used a lot.

A lot, or frequently. Either could be a use case.
My ownership of a Prius Prime sort of fell into both patterns: the ICE was used for most trips, and the pack covered about 1/2 of the miles. It was my first 100 mpg ICE, and in that respect I thought it was a stellar achievement for the time. And since I was able to cover the EV miles with home PV I felt good about the car. It was also cheaper than a regular ICE or HEV after tax credits, so it was a no brainer.

But it turned me into an EV snob, so I sold it for a profit and bought a Tesla. ;-)
 
Prices have been officially announced, as well as a short range variant:



Ioniq 5 Trim Battery Size Powertrain Horsepower EPA est. Range MSRP
SE Standard Range (RWD) 58 kWh Rear Motor 168 HP 220 miles $39,700
SE (RWD) 77.4 kWh Rear Motor 225 HP 303 miles $43,650
SE (AWD) 77.4 kWh Dual Motor 320 HP 256 miles $47,150
SEL (RWD) 77.4 kWh Rear Motor 225 HP 303 miles $45,900
SEL (AWD) 77.4 kWh Dual Motor 320 HP 256 miles $49,400
Limited (RWD) 77.4 kWh Rear Motor 225 HP 303 miles $50,600
Limited (AWD) 77.4 kWh Dual Motor 320 HP 256 miles $54,500


Plus destination.


https://electrek.co/2021/12/13/hyundai-shares-ioniq-5-pricing-alongside-new-standard-range-trim-available-under-40k/
https://www.thedrive.com/news/43484/2022-hyundai-ioniq-5-starts-at-40925-with-220-miles-of-range
 
^^ But for the federal tax credit difference with Tesla, these EVs would be stillborn. As is, they still present marginal value.

Too bad, really. I thought Hy/Kia were further along
 
SageBrush said:
^^ But for the federal tax credit difference with Tesla, these EVs would be stillborn. As is, they still present marginal value.

Too bad, really. I thought Hy/Kia were further along

Sorry but I don't agree. As I pointed out in the Audi Q4 thread, *NOT* everyone loves Tesla design. We need lots of choices.
Glad you love the 3 and Y. You are not everyone.

And while the highest trim AWD I5 *DOES* seem to stack up the way you suggest versus the 59k model Y, what Hyundai is also offering is choices that TESLA doesn't.

I, for one, don't need the performance specs nor AWD that TESLA is making you pay for. Show me the long range RWD model Y?
Show me the long range lower trim (low performance motor) version model Y?

You can't.


Hyundai is offering a 300+ mile RWD Ioniq 5 for just over 37k with the FED tax rebate of 7500. TESLA has nothing even close to that for the model Y. Maybe they will bring back the standard range... but right now it isn't on the website.

36k vs 59k isn't close. In fact, even if Tesla got a tax credit, 37k vs 51.5k isn't even close. Again, not everyone wants a fully loaded trim.

To be honest, I actually think these prices came in lower that I was expecting. Hyundai is offering a 300+ mile EV, with sub 20 minute 80% charging, for a starting price of 37k. Depending on state and local incentives, perhaps into the upper 20's. That opens it up to people who simply cannot afford a TESLA.
 
Oh, I agree that once the federal tax subsidy difference is included, Hy/Kia has less expensive offers of de-contented cars.

That is marketing, not progress.
 
SageBrush said:
Oh, I agree that once the federal tax subsidy difference is included, Hy/Kia has less expensive offers of de-contented cars.

You say that like it would be different if the tax credit wasn't included. Lets check that:
Starting I5: 39.7k + delivery
Starting Model Y: 58.99k + delivery + order fee

Nope, that is not close. Ok, lets do the long range I5:

Starting I5 LR: 43.65k + delivery
Starting Model Y: 58.99k + delivery + order fee

Nope, that's not close either.
By "de-contented" you probably mean equipment not everyone wants or can afford to pay for? That's a good thing.


That is marketing, not progress.

What are you defining progress as? To me, its more variety and styles of affordable EVs, to eventually fill everyone's needs, at prices regular people can afford. Tesla took a huge step with the model Y! But over the last year they have raised the model Y price by nearly $10k! That's not progress.

I honestly don't get why you are so against anything besides TESLA. As with everything, each have their own pluses and minuses.
 
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