Toyota will do anything to avoid building an EV

Seriously, what is wrong with these people?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/toyota-hydrogen-fuel-cell-car-161007512.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You think it's hard finding a place to plug in, good luck finding a hydrogen station.

Hey now, platinum is all the way down to $1400 per ounce! Pretty soon they will be able to sell for $50,000 a $30,000 car that takes fuel as expensive as gas without even taking a giant loss! Until people buy them and the price of platinum sky-rockets, of course.

DOA.

Who's going to bother with the cost and challenges of building a Hydrogen fueling infrastructure, when the infrastructure already exists to deliver power right to your car as you sleep?

Hydrogen is a very challenging gas to contain and store due to its small molecule size and its reactiveness. I cannot imagine what the response will be once a mishap happens to a hydrogen-powered vehicle or a hydrogen fueling station. Given how the public has reacted to both the Chevy Volt and the Model S fire, the press will likely conjure up images of the Hindenburg disaster and put it on the front page again. And then we all return to happily burning oil.

Like the people who are all worried about the possibility of battery fires, then advocate 3000 psi natural gas canisters as the solution.

LTLFTcomposite said:

Like the people who are all worried about the possibility of battery fires, then advocate 3000 psi natural gas canisters as the solution.

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Indeed. Those are much safer and definitely won't burn! :roll:

And we all know how well the Honda Clarity is selling :roll:

Well, I reckon that Govenment is pushing hydrodgen because they need to get Big Oil on board. And they won't be able to get Big Oil on board without giving them a product line they can push instead of gasoline. They certainly aren't going to be in a position to sell us electricity. And even if they were, most of us wouldn't be buying.

Fool Cells.

Once you get used to plugging in at home, it is hard to consider buying any vehicle that will require trips to a fuel station. The only practical fuel cell should be one that is a range-extender to a vehicle that is primarily a battery car for daily commutes.

It's possible they just don't have the skills. After all the rav4 is just a glider as far as they are concerned. Think about what a massive dysfunctional bureaucracy Toyota must be, stamping out camrys and corollas totally devoid of innovation. All it takes is the guy at the top with the wrong ideas and thousands of yes men clinging to their positions nod their heads.

Too harsh?

adric22 said:

Once you get used to plugging in at home, it is hard to consider buying any vehicle that will require trips to a fuel station. The only practical fuel cell should be one that is a range-extender to a vehicle that is primarily a battery car for daily commutes.

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+1

If a portable H2 fuel cell would charge the LEAF battery that might be workable. Just rent it filled and ready for long trips.

Big Oil should be forced to make Batteries!

mwalsh said:

Well, I reckon that Govenment is pushing hydrodgen because they need to get Big Oil on board. And they won't be able to get Big Oil on board without giving them a product line they can push instead of gasoline. They certainly aren't going to be in a position to sell us electricity. And even if they were, most of us wouldn't be buying.

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Not too harsh but it's weird because my Wife's Prius C is a great forward thinking car. It gets 56MPG and she can go 450 miles on one tank of gas. Starts at 18K and fully loaded at 24K.

LTLFTcomposite said:

It's possible they just don't have the skills. After all the rav4 is just a glider as far as they are concerned. Think about what a massive dysfunctional bureaucracy Toyota must be, stamping out camrys and corollas totally devoid of innovation. All it takes is the guy at the top with the wrong ideas and thousands of yes men clinging to their positions nod their heads.

Too harsh?

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Toyota most definitely has the skills but Michael hit it on the head. Big Oil backing is the key here and even with them buying up all the battery patents that are available, they are simply not in position to take advantage of EVs so H is the next logical step for them. it will take better technology and a ton of money to create the infrastructure at a level few companies have access to. Big Oil is one of those very few.

I wouldn't discount Toyota quite so quickly, though. I highly suspect they are going to have a great plug-in hybrid in their next generation Plug-in-Prius. They've already said that the new body style of Prius (the next gen) will have a lower center of gravity for better handling and more all-electric range. I suspect that means they are going to put the batteries under the car and I'm willing to bet the all electric range will be at least as good as Ford's Energi products but possibly even as high as the Volt. Toyota has the potential to make an absolutely game-changing PHEV because they are more likely to sell it at a price that people can afford when they are ready to mass-market a plug-in car. I believe the current PiP is nothing more than an experiment for them. It also helps with their CARB compliance. They may get series with the next generation Prius.

Toyota is about profit and market share. They may have the skills but they don't have the motivation or incentive to apply them... Look at the new 2014 Corolla as a case in point... Decent but not nearly as nice or as good or as innovative a car as much of the competition. But it will sell well simply because it is a Toyota...

LTLFTcomposite said:

It's possible they just don't have the skills. After all the rav4 is just a glider as far as they are concerned. Think about what a massive dysfunctional bureaucracy Toyota must be, stamping out camrys and corollas totally devoid of innovation.

Click to expand...

surfingslovak said:

Hydrogen is a very challenging gas to contain and store due to its small molecule size and its reactiveness. I cannot imagine what the response will be once a mishap happens to a hydrogen-powered vehicle or a hydrogen fueling station. Given how the public has reacted to both the Chevy Volt and the Model S fire, the press will likely conjure up images of the Hindenburg disaster and put it on the front page again. And then we all return to happily burning oil.

Click to expand...

There are techniques to split the hydrogen from gasoline or other hydrocarbons...so the fuel cell car of the future will run on....gasoline!

adric22 said:

I wouldn't discount Toyota quite so quickly, though. I highly suspect they are going to have a great plug-in hybrid in their next generation Plug-in-Prius...

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I discount them until I see evidence of them getting serious.
I had great hopes that Toyota would lead the way into EVs as they did with hybrids.
Loved the RAV4ev first gen and was eagerly awaiting the second gen.

No doubt they have the capability.

However, they canceled roll out of their small EV and there are just a few (in Austrailia?) in fleet services.
They bad mouth EVs in interviews.
They seriously lag behind Nissan, GM and Tesla even though they have access to Tesla tech.
They have nothing on the horizon other than bad mouthing EVs and mentioning hydrogen.

I WAS a proud Prius (x2) owner, but their 'follow the pack' mentality is very sad to see from a one time leader in efficient cars.

I would speculate Toyota will slowly extend the EV range of their hybrid vehicles over the next 20 years as batteries improve on price and performance.