Sudden Motor Power Loss resulting in car stalled on the side of the highway - Nissan Leaf 2017 30 kWh Battery Pack

[zarniwoop]

Just an update. My car has been in the shop since Dec 13th, 2022. I just received word last week that my EV battery is to arrive early March. I am just glad at this point to be given an ETA. I did talk to corporate Nissan and try to escalate it. Not sure if that helped, but I received word soon after that call.

 

[timgross]

I had a similar experience today with my 2016 30kWh 8 capacity bar Leaf today. Temperature was about 50 F, so not cold at all. I started with 10 charge bars (about 14 kWh, according to LSP). Going 60 mph on the highway, slightly uphill but nothing crazy. The car started dropping charge bars very fast (one every 30 seconds or so) and it went into turtle mode. I slowed to 50 mph, and it came out of turtle mode but would slip back into turtle mode off and on. When I got off the highway and slowed even more, the charge bars started to increase. I plugged in to an L2 charger for an hour and it seemed to be working as normal.

I know I already qualify for the replacement battery under warranty. I was hoping to make it through the upcoming summer first because we have hot summers. My warranty period expires March 2024, so that is not a problem. However, if it keeps doing this, I will have to do it sooner. I just hope it is only the battery and not the BMS. I don't think the BMS is covered under the warranty.

Any comments or suggestions?

 

[mn4az]

I had a similar experience today with my 2016 30kWh 8 capacity bar Leaf today. Temperature was about 50 F, so not cold at all. I started with 10 charge bars (about 14 kWh, according to LSP). Going 60 mph on the highway, slightly uphill but nothing crazy. The car started dropping charge bars very fast (one every 30 seconds or so) and it went into turtle mode. I slowed to 50 mph, and it came out of turtle mode but would slip back into turtle mode off and on. When I got off the highway and slowed even more, the charge bars started to increase. I plugged in to an L2 charger for an hour and it seemed to be working as normal.

I know I already qualify for the replacement battery under warranty. I was hoping to make it through the upcoming summer first because we have hot summers. My warranty period expires March 2024, so that is not a problem. However, if it keeps doing this, I will have to do it sooner. I just hope it is only the battery and not the BMS. I don't think the BMS is covered under the warranty.

Any comments or suggestions?

BMS is the Battery Management System (ie software). It's the thing that cause you to experience what you did to protect the battery pack. Given that 4 - 6 months seems to be the standard wait time for a new battery I'd get it looked at soon, get in line for the battery and you'll then very likely during the back half of summer '23.

 

[LeftieBiker]

To be clear: the BMS is considered part of the traction battery, and is always replaced with the battery - in which it is located - under warranty. It is debatable that the BMS is the source of the problem; it is more likely the actual battery cells, and the BMS is just doing its job trying to protect the ability of the whole battery to function when it does these things. Nissan made it more confusing when they claimed that the issue was with the BMS and not the battery cells, when the truth appears to be that there is a defect in some of the BMS systems, but a more serious problem with many of the cells.

 

[mn4az]

To be clear: the BMS is considered part of the traction battery, and is always replaced with the battery - in which it is located - under warranty. It is debatable that the BMS is the source of the problem; it is more likely the actual battery cells, and the BMS is just doing its job trying to protect the ability of the whole battery to function when it does these things. Nissan made it more confusing when they claimed that the issue was with the BMS and not the battery cells, when the truth appears to be that there is a defect in some of the BMS systems, but a more serious problem with many of the cells.

Much better explanation than mine!

When I said "caused" what I was saying in my head was "the BMS is just doing its job trying to protect the ability of the whole battery to function when it does these things"

 

[timgross]

Thanks mn4az and LeftieBiker. That is a good clarification. I wasn't expecting to hear 4-6 months. That changes the timing on going for the new battery. I will do it much sooner. I just hope that what happened today was an anomaly because it would be difficult to deal with that for 4-6 months.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Does your highway drive time get preceded by any time driving on slower roads? It seems to me that the problem here is increased strain on the battery, resulting in voltage sag in some cells, that is caused by bad cells but exacerbated by things like low temps, high loads at highway speeds, and possibly, high loads from heating and accessory drains. If you have any alternate routes that can eliminate or reduce battery drain, you may want to try them. You may also want to gently load the battery with the cabin heater, to try to bring the internal battery temperature up before you reach the higher speed part of the trip, then backing off of that load shortly before you have to speed up. IOW, the goal would be to avoid straining a cold battery.

 

[timgross]

Yes, I drove about 5 miles at about 30 MPH before jumping on the highway where I was driving 60 MPH. The outside temp was not that cold, about 50 degrees. The highway was uphill, gaining about 1000 ft in elevation over 12 miles. I did not have the heater on. I don't often drive that uphill section. Most of my driving is on flat ground, so maybe that is why I haven't experienced this yet.

If it does occur again while I am waiting for the replacement battery, it there a way to get it to reset? Maybe just turning off the car for a few minutes?

 

[LeftieBiker]

You could try pulling over and turning the car off for 15 minutes, at the very first sign of trouble. Which I guess would be those rapidly dropping charge bars.

 

[zarniwoop]

Yes, I drove about 5 miles at about 30 MPH before jumping on the highway where I was driving 60 MPH. The outside temp was not that cold, about 50 degrees. The highway was uphill, gaining about 1000 ft in elevation over 12 miles. I did not have the heater on. I don't often drive that uphill section. Most of my driving is on flat ground, so maybe that is why I haven't experienced this yet.

If it does occur again while I am waiting for the replacement battery, it there a way to get it to reset? Maybe just turning off the car for a few minutes?

When it happened to me turning off the car for a few minutes dint help and it was still stuck on neutral. But the next day it was moving again. I started carrying a wrench along to disconnect the 12V in case that helps. Never got to test it, but might not be a bad idea to carry one along in case you get stranded.

 

[Ibby]

Just updating my Leaf status for all of you.
Dec 20 2022: after battery failure took to local dealer
Jan 4 2023; regional Nissan engineer visited dealer and authorized battery pack replacement. I was told it may be April before it is fixed.
Feb 15 2023: I am 5th on the waiting list for a new battery. Apparently only 1 battery will be sent to my dealer in March.

 

[mn4az]

Following this thread closely for updates, I just had this happen to me too today while driving my 2016 to work — near freezing temperatures, driving a bit uphill, drive cuts out while I’m trying to accelerate on I-25S heading into Denver. Got pulled into shoulder & couldn’t re-engage drive, would only do N & P. Took a couple hours for AAA dispatched truck to get to me (quite not fun but at least wasn’t snowing…). Nissan basically says won’t likely get news until Monday but if is HV battery would likely be 6 months wait. I happened to have ODBII in car and LeafSpy showed pretty much exactly the codes others have posted. My battery is just barely 9 bars with 66.9 SOH — soooo close but maybe I’ll get lucky. Suspect they’ll first want to replace 12V.

Anyways hope to hear what happens with you all’s Leafs.

@tadm what happened with your scenario. New 12V? New HV? Other?

 

[Tadm]

@tadm what happened with your scenario. New 12V? New HV? Other?

New 12V at my expense. I’ve been hesitant to drive it again under similar conditions, so far been using other car if it’s below 40F just in case. Guess will see if summer weather gets me to the warrantee trigger. If mine eventually gets bought out could be interesting since it I got it as a lease originally then bought it out (nearly paid off now). No idea how that’ll mess with their accounting…

 

[mn4az]

On my drive home from work today, I got the infamous "Motor Power is Limited" warning for a moment (72MPH going up a decent gradient), looked down at LeafSpy and had a 792mV differential in the cells (min/avg/max = 2.567 3.140 3.359). It might be a race between the DTC error popping (likely leads to new battery pack or buyback offer) and SOH being low enough (currently at 67.15%) to claim new battery pack (or buy back) due to battery warranty degradation.

 

[zarniwoop]

Just updating you all.

I was told that the battery would arrive early march, but that never happened. My dealership has no idea, and told me they are being given no information by the parts department. I called Nissan corporate a few times, and they told me there are 79 open orders in North America right now for the 40kWh battery pack. Since I'm located in Canada, I am not sure I would be given the same priority since we have no lemon laws.

I don't believe any batteries arrived in march from Japan since my position in queue stayed unchanged. Not sure whats happening, but I am not expecting my car to be fixed anytime soon.

 

[Ibby]

Just updating my Leaf status for all of you.
Dec 20 2022: after battery failure took to local dealer
Jan 4 2023; regional Nissan engineer visited dealer and authorized battery pack replacement. I was told it may be April before it is fixed.
Feb 15 2023: I am 5th on the waiting list for a new battery. Apparently only 1 battery will be sent to my dealer in March.

To close out my saga on this thread. Nissan are buying the Leaf back from me. Details listed over in the buyback thread.