PG&E estimate

[mdh]

I am supposed to pick up my car this week... so, I called PG&E to try to get an estimate on how much additional electricity I will be consuming. Some data points:

1. I am currently on E1 rate plan (non TOU)
2. I consume on avg 1000 KW per month. I am up in tier 4 and 5 due to my pool filter pump (i assume). I don't have AC in my home.
3. My avg electric bill is $250 per month
4. PG&E said that if I fully charge the leaf every day, I will consume about 792 additional KW per month. As such, my bill could go up by $270. They estimate a full charge to be 26.4 KW x 30 days.

I could change my rate plan to E9V to add TOU with a second meter. I am wondering if this will be a painful process as my home was built around 1970. I do have an upgraded panel, but my service line is original. I am told I have 240 volts from PG&E, according to their agent.

Currently, I spend about $30 per week on gas for my Prius. So, my guess is, the Leaf will be a push based on fuel/electric costs.

Any thoughts? And, thanks in advance.

 

[EricH]

1. You won't "fully charge" the Leaf every day, so that estimate is too high. We drive close to 200 miles/week, which means about 2.5 "full charges" per week, not seven. Also, with some luck, you can find free public charging for some of your usage.

2. Check if PG&E has a TOU-EV rate that does NOT require a second meter - called a "whole-house TOU". SCE offers one, and my bill actually dropped after switching over (I'm consistently Tier 4-5 as well, but there's nobody home to run A/C until 6pm weekdays, so we did well on TOU). You can easily push your pool pump to the super-off-peak period (midnight-6am for SCE), and with no A/C, you should break even or save money on a whole-house TOU rate.

My 2nd-meter installation costs would have blown out the modest additional savings from the EV-only rate, but as always, YMMV.

 

[Bassman]

I'm on PG&E's EV-9B rate. I commute 126 miles roundtrip, but charge free at work. My average PG&E bill for the TOU meter is $17 to $20 /month, as compared to my $350 per month gas bill in my Honda CRX HF, which gets 44 mpg. My bill at home is probably 60% of my total electrical use. At about roughly 7 cents per KWH for the 1st and 2nd Tier rate on EV-9B, and if you're already in Tier 4 and 5 for the house, I would definitely go with the EV-9B second meter rate.

 

[davewill]

Yeah, unless you have an insane commute you won't fully charge every night. Take the expected number of miles in a month and divide by 75 miles, and you'll have a pretty good estimate of the number of "full" charges you'll actually consume. The 75 mile number comes from driving 65 mph on the freeway. The slower you go (or the more you drive on slower roads) the higher that range number will be, but this will get you in the ballpark.

 

[mdh]

1. You won't "fully charge" the Leaf every day, so that estimate is too high. We drive close to 200 miles/week, which means about 2.5 "full charges" per week, not seven. Also, with some luck, you can find free public charging for some of your usage.

2. Check if PG&E has a TOU-EV rate that does NOT require a second meter - called a "whole-house TOU". SCE offers one, and my bill actually dropped after switching over (I'm consistently Tier 4-5 as well, but there's nobody home to run A/C until 6pm weekdays, so we did well on TOU). You can easily push your pool pump to the super-off-peak period (midnight-6am for SCE), and with no A/C, you should break even or save money on a whole-house TOU rate.

My 2nd-meter installation costs would have blown out the modest additional savings from the EV-only rate, but as always, YMMV.

Thanks so much. I can get a E9 TOU without second meter, but my rates would go up due to the pool pump.

 

[mdh]

1. You won't "fully charge" the Leaf every day, so that estimate is too high. We drive close to 200 miles/week, which means about 2.5 "full charges" per week, not seven. Also, with some luck, you can find free public charging for some of your usage.

2. Check if PG&E has a TOU-EV rate that does NOT require a second meter - called a "whole-house TOU". SCE offers one, and my bill actually dropped after switching over (I'm consistently Tier 4-5 as well, but there's nobody home to run A/C until 6pm weekdays, so we did well on TOU). You can easily push your pool pump to the super-off-peak period (midnight-6am for SCE), and with no A/C, you should break even or save money on a whole-house TOU rate.

My 2nd-meter installation costs would have blown out the modest additional savings from the EV-only rate, but as always, YMMV.

I will see if moving my pool pump to night will work... for some reason, i was told you need to run the filter during day light?

 

[davewill]

I will see if moving my pool pump to night will work... for some reason, i was told you need to run the filter during day light?

If you have a solar pool heater that would be a reason to run it during the day.

 

[mdh]

I will see if moving my pool pump to night will work... for some reason, i was told you need to run the filter during day light?

If you have a solar pool heater that would be a reason to run it during the day.

i have solar for my pool. The bummer is, it looks like my leaf will cost me more than my prius (fuel costs) due to my current configuration IF I don't charge at work. I am wondering what will be the costs of adding a second meter for E9V beyond the $250 meter cost.

 

[clunetta]

From my reading there are two PG&E EV rates, E9A and E9B. E9B requires a second meter while E9A does not. A handy graphic of the E9A and E9B rate structures appears here. To avoid the additional costs associated with the second meter and additional panel we went with E9A. We also have solar heating on the pool and plan to stop the pump at 2 PM to avoid the Peak rates. Both the dishwasher and washing machine have a delay feature so they'll also be run after midnight.

If the E9A math is correct a full charge should cost $1.20/$2.50/$6.82 for Off Peak/Partial Peak/Peak.

 

[mdh]

From my reading there are two PG&E EV rates, E9A and E9B. E9B requires a second meter while E9A does not. A handy graphic of the E9A and E9B rate structures appears here. To avoid the additional costs associated with the second meter and additional panel we went with E9A. We also have solar heating on the pool and plan to stop the pump at 2 PM to avoid the Peak rates. Both the dishwasher and washing machine have a delay feature so they'll also be run after midnight.

If the E9A math is correct a full charge should cost $1.20/$2.50/$6.82 for Off Peak/Partial Peak/Peak.

Man, this is great info.... what was your normal electric bill before EV? I seem to be living in Tier 4 and 5 currently (without the Leaf).

 

[mdh]

From my reading there are two PG&E EV rates, E9A and E9B. E9B requires a second meter while E9A does not. A handy graphic of the E9A and E9B rate structures appears here. To avoid the additional costs associated with the second meter and additional panel we went with E9A. We also have solar heating on the pool and plan to stop the pump at 2 PM to avoid the Peak rates. Both the dishwasher and washing machine have a delay feature so they'll also be run after midnight.

If the E9A math is correct a full charge should cost $1.20/$2.50/$6.82 for Off Peak/Partial Peak/Peak.

questions:

1. i assume you will run your pool filter pump at night during off season?
2. what is amazing is during peak usage the Leaf will cost more to "fill" than my prius

You've really opened my eyes.. thanks!

 

[clunetta]

1. During the 12:00 AM - 7:00 AM Off Peak window, unless the noise interferes with my 20 winks.
2. Not a question, but amazing nonetheless! In round numbers, even the peak rate is likely relatively inexpensive compared to ICE costs. The logic being:

$6.82 cost per fill / 75 miles per fill = $0.090933 cost per mile
For an ICE with that cost per mile, a gallon would only cost

• 20 mpg * $0.090933 = $1.82
• 30 mpg * $0.090933 = $2.73
• 40 mpg * $0.090933 = $3.64

In my county GasBuddy reports the least expensive gallon is $3.61.

 

[DougMarker]

Since switching to E-9A, my PG&E bill went DOWN $47.91 compared to the same month (December) last year. I set up my hot tub to run late nights and weekends, other than that I don't do anything different. I usually charge my LEAF during off-peak. I am concerned though; it looks like the SUMMER E-9 actually has HIGHER rates than E-1 during peak hours. Guess I'll find out what happens next summer.