3-Blinking Lights won't charge

[2k1Toaster]

Hello all,

My 2013 Leaf won't charge on the Chargepoint chargers around here. It will charge on the included L1 EVSE, the AV/Nissan L2 EVSE's, and of course the CHAdeMO port. But as of today the Chargepoint charger I was using now will not charge the car.

When I plug it in, I get the 3 blue lights on the dash to blink together 3 times, beep-beep-beep, then a pause, then beep-beep-beep, pause until I unplug the J1772 handle. Now I know this normally means that the J1772 handle trigger is depressed or not fully mated. However that is not the problem.

Today while charging with an L1 EVSE in a public place I had the AUTO lock function on and it had the J1772 handle locked. Came back to the car with the L1 5-15P out of the wall, EVSE still connected to the car. I am assuming they tried to remove the locked J1772 and failed so just unplugged at the wall. But now, I can't charge.

I specifically tested the AV/Nissan L2 EVSE because they don't do the diode test and they do seem to work. So is this a diode failure? Since I can charge with the other chargers and it is not just completely dead, I am guessing if it is the diode problem, it is shorted and not blown open meaning I can splice in an inline diode and be OK. Electronics are not a problem. Does anyone know if the 2013's have this ailment like the 2011 and 2012's? I would have hoped Nissan had fixed this weak diode by now, but maybe not.

So this is what I was thinking and just thought I'd do it to test. Got the plastic covering off from in the "engine bay", got the plastic cover removed from around the charge ports, but then my Leaf doesn't look like any of the Leafs in the videos or pictures for people doing this. My J1772 port has socket nuts exposed and it seems like if I were to remove them there would be 4 threaded posts exposed. I also don't see an orange HV cable to unplug, even though one goes to the socket. The LED light and stuff on the backside takes up some room. Are there instructions for getting access to the wire I need in a 2013? I'd rather not just poke and prod until I figure it out if there's already a guide.

Thanks!

 

[alozzy]

A definitive diode test is explained in this video:

https://youtu.be/5R4dGg8nIUs

In a nutshell, you test resistance between the J1772 ground and the pilot and you should find that the resistance is asymmetrical, as a diode basically allows current flow in only one direction. If the diode has failed, then the resistance will be the same in both directions...

Some good insights here with respect to the design and function of the J1772 charging circuit and of the in series diode:

https://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/evdl-j1772-adapter-63269.html%3famp=1

 

[2k1Toaster]

I did test as per the instructions but I am not sure what I'm looking for. To be clear, I'm an EE so I have no problem with the measurements or understanding what it's doing.

But I've seen measurements in the 60kohm to 100kohm range. And some in the 5kohm range. It just says "infinite" or "high" resistance vs "low" resistance. But I work with stuff in the uOhm range where 10mOhms would be "high". It's all relative.

When I measured mine I did get assymetric values but they were both in the hundreds of kOhm range.

 

[GerryAZ]

Digital meters can give you misleading resistance values when testing diodes unless you use their diode test function (which I would not do with the pilot and ground wires because test voltage from meter might damage something else). I suggest you test a known good general purpose diode with your meter and compare readings to what you measured on the car.

For what it is worth, just unplugging the L1 EVSE from the wall (or a power outage) while charging should not cause a diode failure.

 

[2k1Toaster]

Digital meters can give you misleading resistance values when testing diodes unless you use their diode test function (which I would not do with the pilot and ground wires because test voltage from meter might damage something else). I suggest you test a known good general purpose diode with your meter and compare readings to what you measured on the car.

Yes, thankyou. I am very familiar with DMMs. I'm an EE with a decade of experience designing power semiconductors. But this is great info for some people to have.

I think I may have a temperature dependent failure as after cold soaking, it doesn't always connect properly, which can happen to diodes.

For what it is worth, just unplugging the L1 EVSE from the wall (or a power outage) while charging should not cause a diode failure.

I think it actually may be. The original statement put out was that when the pilot signal (or proximity, forget which) disconnects and then connects rapidly, the car is flicking the inrush relays on and off to start/end a charge. It is possible to send a large current spike through the diode if the timing aligns. If you were to try and rip a locked J1772 plug out, it could be conceivable that the pilot signal is flickering essentially.






Does anyone know definitively what the 3-blinks on a 2013+ Leaf mean? Everything I read is that it means the release/trigger on the J1772 plug is activated grounding that side of the connection. However it doesn't make sense to me if I had a physical deformity causing that why it would work on the stock L1 EVSE and AV/Nissan L2 EVSEs. It should just not work with any J1772 input... Similarly if it is a problem with the station, then plugging into the car next to me should also not work, but does.

The only video I have seen about the diode issue when it's plugged in, nothing happens. That's not true on mine where it is plugged in and then it 3 blinks.

 

[alozzy]

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=15573

 

[2k1Toaster]

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=15573

Yes but as I described in my original post, this has nothing to do with that.

The J1772 receptacle will accept and charge with the L1 EVSE that comes with the car as well as AV/Nissan L2 EVSE's with no issues. Some of the Chargepoint chargers just make it blink. Plugging into another vehicle, not mine, they work fine.

There is nothing wrong with the J1772 handle since it works on other cars. There is nothing wrong with the physical connection, even though the car thinks there is, because other J1772 handles plug in with no issue.

 

[alozzy]

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=15573

Yes but as I described in my original post, this has nothing to do with that.

The J1772 receptacle will accept and charge with the L1 EVSE that comes with the car as well as AV/Nissan L2 EVSE's with no issues. Some of the Chargepoint chargers just make it blink. Plugging into another vehicle, not mine, they work fine.

There is nothing wrong with the J1772 handle since it works on other cars. There is nothing wrong with the physical connection, even though the car thinks there is, because other J1772 handles plug in with no issue.

You asked:

Does anyone know definitively what the 3-blinks on a 2013+ Leaf mean

I was merely giving you a link with respect to that question.

If that's not sufficient, then this is from page CH-33 of the owner's manual:

When the normal charge connector is connected incorrectly, all of the indicator lights, 1 to 3 , will flash and beep will sound three times within 30 seconds when the charge connector is connected incorrectly to the normal charge port.

If that matches the light sequence and beep pattern that you are hearing, then that would seem to be the definitive answer to your question.

 

[2k1Toaster]

I was merely giving you a link with respect to that question.

If that's not sufficient, then this is from page CH-33 of the owner's manual:

When the normal charge connector is connected incorrectly, all of the indicator lights, 1 to 3 , will flash and beep will sound three times within 30 seconds when the charge connector is connected incorrectly to the normal charge port.

If that matches the light sequence and beep pattern that you are hearing, then that would seem to be the definitive answer to your question.

Not really since the manual doesn't describe abnormal behaviour. If there is a broken component, like the diode for the check, does that materialize as the car thinking the handle is not connected properly and therefore the 3 blinks. As I said in my 2nd paragraph in the original post:

When I plug it in, I get the 3 blue lights on the dash to Blink together 3 times, beep-beep-beep, then a pause, then beep-beep-beep, pause until I unplug the J1772 handle. Now I know this normally means that the J1772 handle trigger is depressed or not fully mated. However that is not the problem.

 

[davewill]

...
The only video I have seen about the diode issue when it's plugged in, nothing happens. That's not true on mine where it is plugged in and then it 3 blinks.

I would expect that behavior might be EVSE dependent. Some might completely ignore being plugged into a car with a bad diode (except for refusing to energize) others might signal an error on the pilot signal, causing the car to blink it's lights. Anyway, since the pilot signal normally swings from -12v to 12v, I would think that diode mode on the DMM wouldn't hurt anything and I'd try it...but I'm a software guy, what do I know?

 

[2k1Toaster]

...
The only video I have seen about the diode issue when it's plugged in, nothing happens. That's not true on mine where it is plugged in and then it 3 blinks.

I would expect that behavior might be EVSE dependent. Some might completely ignore being plugged into a car with a bad diode (except for refusing to energize) others might signal an error on the pilot signal, causing the car to blink it's lights. Anyway, since the pilot signal normally swings from -12v to 12v, I would think that diode mode on the DMM wouldn't hurt anything and I'd try it...but I'm a software guy, what do I know?

That actually makes sense. How do you as a EVSE report a diode test failure to the user / vehicle since it's not part of the spec'd reports... I guess it could be (EVSE) MFR specific.

 

[SageBrush]

2k1,
Why don't you just put in a diode and see what happens ?
A tutorial is posted at https://darelldd.smugmug.com/Automotive/Electric-Vehicle/n-7QXrQ/Chargers/Nissan-Leaf-charging/i-rcsHp8p

Some steps skipped:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=24696

 

[davewill]

That actually makes sense. How do you as a EVSE report a diode test failure to the user / vehicle since it's not part of the spec'd reports... I guess it could be (EVSE) MFR specific.

It is part of the spec (see below), except it really doesn't cover the exact scenarios that the EVSE should signal error. Interpretations do certainly vary. The original Nissan EVSE used to omit the -12v swing altogether and just swing from 0v to 12v...that's why it wouldn't work on Teslas. The illustration below shows the effect the diode has where the EV pulls the positive swings down, but the negative swings are unaffected. The idea is that dropping the plug into a puddle of water or a kid poking a paper clip into the plug won't accidentally energize it. Some manufacturers felt that having GFI in the EVSE was enough protection against that sort of thing and omitted the diode checking logic.

https://openev.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/6000052074-basics-of-sae-j1772

 

[2k1Toaster]

That actually makes sense. How do you as a EVSE report a diode test failure to the user / vehicle since it's not part of the spec'd reports... I guess it could be (EVSE) MFR specific.

It is part of the spec (see below), except it really doesn't cover the exact scenarios that the EVSE should signal error. Interpretations do certainly vary. The original Nissan EVSE used to omit the -12v swing altogether and just swing from 0v to 12v...that's why it wouldn't work on Teslas. The illustration below shows the effect the diode has where the EV pulls the positive swings down, but the negative swings are unaffected. The idea is that dropping the plug into a puddle of water or a kid poking a paper clip into the plug won't accidentally energize it. Some manufacturers felt that having GFI in the EVSE was enough protection against that sort of thing and omitted the diode checking logic.

https://openev.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/6000052074-basics-of-sae-j1772

Yep, I've seen that page and it is what I would expect. I haven't actually hooked up the scope to look but that's my next step.

 

[davewill]

Yep, I've seen that page and it is what I would expect. I haven't actually hooked up the scope to look but that's my next step.

That would tell the story. If the pilot stays at +12v, the diode failed open (but then it shouldn't work at all). If it looks like the either of the failed diode examples (red or yellow) above, it's failed shorted. If it only pulls the positive part down, then something else is wrong.

 

[2k1Toaster]

Anyone have a picture of where the main charge cable goes under the hood?

Looks like straight out from the inlet to the back of the hood then towards the passenger side and up towards... something? I'm hoping to pop-off a cover so I can put on some test point terminals to the same places those ring terminals connect.

 

[davewill]

Anyone have a picture of where the main charge cable goes under the hood?

http://www.jp-carparts.com/images/nissan_parts/237/output_291A%20014.gif

Looks like straight out from the inlet to the back of the hood then towards the passenger side and up towards... something? I'm hoping to pop-off a cover so I can put on some test point terminals to the same places those ring terminals connect.

I believe that the other end of the cable is going to be inside the charger assembly, and would take more effort than just removing a cover to access. If I were trying to instrument this on the car end, there's a couple of ideas I'd try. One, try either accessing the wires coming from the back of the inlet, and use a needle to puncture the pilot wire. Second, try poking a very thin wire into the pilot and ground pins in the front of the inlet and see if I could get them to survive the plug insertion and stick out after plugging in. As far as a picture, there's a post somewhere that shows (can't remember if it's a video or just photos) how to do the diode refit that should be helpful.

However, it would be much easier to instrument it at the EVSE end. You could simply open the EVSE and access the cable terminations there. I don't think it has be an EVSE that fails in order to see what you need to see.

 

[Lothsahn]

Not really since the manual doesn't describe abnormal behaviour. If there is a broken component, like the diode for the check, does that materialize as the car thinking the handle is not connected properly and therefore the 3 blinks.

The diode failure typically manifests as a lack of any lights on the car on a 2011. You can see it here:
https://youtu.be/5R4dGg8nIUs?t=35

However, it might be the case that this behavior differs if you have a different charger or it may differ for a 2013.

The linked video shows definitively how to check whether or not the diode has failed. This would apply to a 2013 as well. Get a multimeter and follow the instructions in the video to diagnose if the diode has failed.