Why Tesla EVSE incompatible?

I was just watching a video about the Model-S (sorry I don't have the link handy) and it showed the charge plug and it is different from J1772. Tesla was talking about building their own network.

I understand that they wanted to have a quick charger that was faster than Chademo for their very large battery packs. But I'm baffled as to why they would give up compatibility with the hordes of J1772 public chargers that are going up all over the country. Do they feel that their battery pack is so large that they will never need to take advantage of a public L2 charger?

I think they got tired of waiting and also didn't like the looks of the existing options.

CHAdeMO is primarily a Japanese standard, so for USA market they were probably considering the upcoming SAE "combo plug" (with high speed DC & J1772 AC all in one big / jumbo / combo plug.) The SAE plug proposal is huge, and is taking a long time to get into production. So, I bet Tesla just finally said "forget the standard plugs, we have to do this right."

So they made their own which is smaller, sleeker, and more elegant than anyone else's offering.

I used to post requests that they use standards, but after seeing what they came up with, I am actually enthusiastic about their new plug. Maybe they could license it and make it a new "standard" that is better than the alternatives?

TEG said:

So, I bet Tesla just finally said "forget the standard plugs, we have to do this right."

So they made their own which is smaller, sleeker, and more elegant than anyone else's offering.

Click to expand...

The Apple Way.

adric22 said:

I was just watching a video about the Model-S (sorry I don't have the link handy) and it showed the charge plug and it is different from J1772. Tesla was talking about building their own network.

I understand that they wanted to have a quick charger that was faster than Chademo for their very large battery packs. But I'm baffled as to why they would give up compatibility with the hordes of J1772 public chargers that are going up all over the country. Do they feel that their battery pack is so large that they will never need to take advantage of a public L2 charger?

Click to expand...

Tesla drivers are used to charging at 16.8 kW. Maybe the 6 kW (and in some cases 3.8 kW) J1772 stations that are going up may not be that attractive? Charging would take 4 times longer.

Add to this the uncertainty between CHAdeMO and SAE, and the fact that Tesla developed a pretty cool little AC/DC HPC 2.0 plug and their decision starts to make more sense.

They're really not foregoing all the public charging. They're just deciding that the HPC 2.0 will be the primary connector. Public charging will use an interface cable.

and since Tesla has sold hundreds of thousand of these Model S's, they feel they can set the standard, and since they are rolling in so much money, of course they can afford to build out their own nationwide charging network.

If you believe what I posted above, I have a bridge in NY and some land in Florida to sell you

A tesla owners most popular adapter will be "Tesla to J-1772", since I doubt their "nationwide charging network" will ever amount to much.

Tesla most certainly has a J1772 adapter.

They basically have said they will provide an adapter module that you can put on the Model S so it can plug into J1772, but haven't said much about Tesla (DC) chargers and Tesla (AC) EVSEs to other types of cars. [ e.g. : We will gladly take your power, but you can't have ours. ]

They have also indicated that they view two types of primary charge scenarios:

#1: Home / overnight charging while sleeping where 10kW is plenty.
#2: On the Road charging where 20kW still seems too slow since you are waiting for your car to be done.

So the standard base Model S will only include a 10kW charger standard and a 40A capable AC EVSE for overnight (at home, or at campgrounds / hotels with NEMA 14-50).
Then on the road, you can use their DC "supercharging" network with 90kW DC going in to the same port on the Model S, and get 150 miles of recharge in less than half an hour.

So, basically 10kW at home, 90kW on the road.

They will offer 20kW (e.g. J1772@80A) as an option, but I don't think they view that as a "primary use case."

So I see Model S charging like this:

#1: 7kW using a J1772 adapter at public charging stations for "opportunistic top off".
#2: 10kW from their included "UMC2.0" portable AC EVSE for home and road-trip use.
#3: 20kW from their optional "HPC2.0" that you could install in your garage.
#4: 90kW from their DC "supercharging" network that will first be installed North/South along the west coast.

Not sure about CHAdeMO & SAE Combo 50kW DC. Will they provide adapters for that?
Will a LEAF CHAdeMO ever be able to use a Tesla DC "Supercharger?"
Will a LEAF J1772 ever plug into a Tesla UMC2.0 or HPC2.0?

TEG said:

CHAdeMO is primarily a Japanese standard, so for USA market they were probably considering the upcoming SAE "combo plug" (with high speed DC & J1772 AC all in one big / jumbo / combo plug.) The SAE plug proposal is huge, and is taking a long time to get into production. So, I bet Tesla just finally said "forget the standard plugs, we have to do this right."

So they made their own which is smaller, sleeker, and more elegant than anyone else's offering.

I used to post requests that they use standards, but after seeing what they came up with, I am actually enthusiastic about their new plug. Maybe they could license it and make it a new "standard" that is better than the alternatives?

Click to expand...

The thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from...

the fact that the S will not come with CHAdeMO and CHAdeMO is what is going to be every 40 miles along I-5 from Canada to California and maybe on to Mexico is difficult to comprehend. Having to use an adapter for the L2 seems lame to. For such a smart company these decisions do not seem so smart... swimming against the tide.

Within a matter of months the northwest will have the first major DCQC and L2 charging network in the country and Tesla has opted out? producing the ipad without flash player compatability may have turned out to be brilliant in killing flash player, but Tesla doesn't have that kind of market share yet. Aside from the S being likely out of reach for us, it pretty much seals the deal that it's going to have compatability issues with the only real standard for charging that has come to the EV market. :roll:

Others share your concerns, but it is yet to be seen how this whole situation will "pan out".

It does seem like Tesla is trying to "go their own way", and maybe they will succeed in rolling out their infrastructure more quickly than the CHAdeMO juggernaut?

In Tesla's case, they intend (AFAIK) to put "superchargers" every 150 miles, whereas CHAdeMO for LEAF needs to be more like every 50 miles.


There is a huge expense in installing and operating DC quick chargers. At a minimum, it would be nice if there was a combo charger that could output both Telsa or CHAdeMO so we didn't have double expense to install both types. And keep in mind that neither CHAdeMO nor Tesla are the "official" standard here. SAE will offer their J1772 Combo plugs... But what vehicles will use them? Competing "standards". The old VHS vs Beta, HD-DVD vs Blu-ray type situation.

TEG said:

In Tesla's case, they intend (AFAIK) to put "superchargers" every 150 miles, whereas CHAdeMO for LEAF needs to be more like every 50 miles.

Click to expand...

Well, to be fair - those superchargers at 150 mile increments will barely be sufficient for Model S 220 mi pack owners and insufficient for Model S 160 mi pack owners at freeway speeds unless latter chooses to keep speeds to 55 mph. Maybe if they installed them every 80 miles that'd be sufficient for all Model S owners...

Tesla's standard is "better", so why would they want to change it? besides, they are the smartest people in the room, right? and they are just awash with gobs of cash to install their own charging infrastructure as well

Beta was technically better than VHS as well, we know how that one ended, don't we?

The EV community is so small, and insignifigant, and these bonehead decisions and petty standards issues will insure it stays that way, longer than it has to.

If you charge at home then you don't care. The feedback from those I know that have seen the connector in use say it's awesome, the best connector on the market. SInce there is a J adapter and everything else is up in the air for high speed I don't think buyers will care since they get such a nice implementation. Nissan and others are generally in the dark on EV innovation compared to Tesla by just piecing together ICE cars and standard parts and calling them ground-up designs. Besides, cables can be changed easily on docks and chargers so they are no worse off then others at this point.

Wow, so cool to see this 4 years later!!! Things become so much clearer through the lense of 20/20 hindsight!

Thanks for the bump on this thread. Here's an photo proof the any J1772-compliant EV can now charge using a Tesla HPWC station (not a supercharger):
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/show...apters/page9?p=1216645&viewfull=1#post1216645
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/show...Adapter-to-J-Plug-(on-a-Mercedes-B-Class-EV!)
There are plenty of other pictures on those threads as well.

tedkidd said:

Wow, so cool to see this 4 years later!!! Things become so much clearer through the lense of 20/20 hindsight!

Click to expand...

tedkidd, Welcome to mynissanleaf.com.

For the regulars here that think it's odd that he posted this. The Teslamotorsclub.com forum has been discussing this heavily as a new topic and someone just recently linked to this thread so there will be numerous TMC members popping in here.

Try to give our TMC visitors the benefit of the doubt and don't assume they are trolling or spamming jut because they are new to MNL.

dhanson865 said:

For the regulars here that think it's odd that he posted this. The Teslamotorsclub.com forum has been discussing this heavily as a new topic and someone just recently linked to this thread so there will be numerous TMC members popping in here.

Try to give our TMC visitors the benefit of the doubt and don't assume they are trolling or spamming jut because they are new to MNL.

Click to expand...

I see my name is mentioned (and quoted) a few times in the TMC forum. For the record, I don't interact there because the classless moderators kicked me off last year.

Also for the record, we have developed our own Tesla to J1772 adapter that should be available next year. I think the thread has several folks who recognized our company logo on a plug. Yes, we provided that hardware for the Tesla HPWC / UMC adaptor used in that picture.

We do not produce 3D printed hardware, or "homemade" parts to our customers, as others apparently have.