rawhog
Well-known member
OK, so how is it that a TESLA can connect to a standard level 2 charger but the LEAF cannot connect to a TESLA charger?
TESLA charge connector
- Thread starter rawhog
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Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:
rawhog said:
Apples and oranges. Both the Leaf and Model S (with an adapter) can connect to a J1772 lvl 2 charger.
The Leaf can't connect to the proprietary Tesla DC "supercharger", however, Tesla has suggested they will make the superchargers available to other manufacturers that agree to license the technology.
The Model S can't connect to the open source DC chargers for the Leaf without a $1000 adapter.
Graycenphil
Well-known member
So for now at least, a Tesla Supercharging station is of no use to a Leaf?
davewill
Well-known member
If you could make the right adapter, a LEAF COULD charge from a Tesla Level 2 EVSE. Indeed, Tony Williams is modifying the Tesla portable EVSE by doing nothing more than hacking off the Tesla connector and substituting a J1772 handle.rawhog said:
palmermd
Well-known member
Graycenphil said:
Sure it is. It is keeping all those Model S vehicles from hogging up all the J1772 parking spaces for hours on end to charge their large 85kWh packs.
Graycenphil
Well-known member
Will the station allow you to charge your Leaf? Can you pay them for it?
palmermd
Well-known member
Graycenphil said:
At this point, the only vehicle that can charge at a Tesla Supercharger Station is a Tesla vehicle. Tesla has stated that if other OEM's want to license the technology to have it in their car, they are open to it, but so far there have been no takers. At some point they plan on putting some J1772 stations in as well because even the Tesla Roadsters cannot charge with the Supercharger, and they cannot even pay to have the technology installed (some owners have tried asking for it).
smkettner
Well-known member
Just trade your LEAF for a Telsa. Superchargers are a members only club. Everyone is welcome for the price.
If there is not enough chademo for your LEAF, you should be looking at what Nissan will do for you.... not Tesla.
If there is not enough chademo for your LEAF, you should be looking at what Nissan will do for you.... not Tesla.
Nubo
Well-known member
At this point I think Tesla will win the "standards war" for quick charging. They aren't bogged down by consortiums or the SAE and are free to design instead of spending years dithering about.
davewill
Well-known member
That depends on your definition of "win", I guess. If you mean sheer number of chargers (and only in the USA), it appears that for the near term (5 years?) that you would be right. However, that does not make it a successful standard in my book. I do not believe that most (any?) of the other large manufacturers will adopt their "standard"...they will not be willing to pay a competitor the license fees.Nubo said:
palmermd
Well-known member
davewill said:
If the build-out keeps going as it has, they will be forced to, because the customers will ask for it or buy a Tesla. Once their Model E comes to market this will be the point when we will see if they "win" the standards war.
Either way Tesla "wins" because they could put a ChaDeMo or Combo plug at every location and charge access for its use. The hard part of installing the power feed is already done.
The Tesla Model S can connect to a Level 2 J1772 AC charging station using a simple mechanical adapter with no electronics inside. This works because Tesla planned ahead to be electrically and software compatible with J1772 before the standard was finalized. They chose to not be directly mechanically identical because they wanted to use a single port on the car to also support their DC Supercharger. In Supercharger mode the Model S port must be able to accept almost 300A DC at 120 kW, much higher than the maximum J1772 AC current.rawhog said:
If by "TESLA charger" you mean their DC Supercharger, then the issue is connecting this to the CHAdeMO port on the LEAF. The DC protocols are more complicated than AC protocols. The technical feasibility of doing has been discussed in detail in other threads, but there is also a political issue. Tesla is investing a lot of money into their nation-wide Supercharger network, and they are paying for it via a $2000 access fee included in the purchase price of the 85 kWh model and optional on the 60 kWh model. Elon Musk has stated he is willing to open up his network to other EV manufacturers if they will negotiate a price with him. So far he has had no takers.
Travis
Well-known member
Does anyone think the recent news of Tesla giving away its ideas will change this?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/12/tesla-patents_n_5489237.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Given this news I would think it would be possible to create an adapter. If they are willing to allow people to use their patents I would assume that would include the charging systems.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/12/tesla-patents_n_5489237.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Given this news I would think it would be possible to create an adapter. If they are willing to allow people to use their patents I would assume that would include the charging systems.
Travis said:
I don't believe it will be quite that simple.
The business model is access to the supercharger network is paid up front, per vehicle, and then is free forever.
During the communication between car and charger, the VIN is transmitted. I am assuming it is then authorized or not.
If Nissan takes advantage of the offer, I could see an adapter tied to your vehicle VIN available from Nissan.
However, I don't see Nissan going that direction until they have a 150 mile (or greater) range vehicle which could take advantage of the faster charging safely.
GeekEV
Well-known member
Without having seen the patents, it's important to keep in mind that they can be pretty high level. They often address techniques and approaches without getting into implementation details. As the saying goes "the devil is in the details".
abasile
Well-known member
Agreed. However, perhaps we will see Supercharger hardware manufactured by third parties for sale to businesses and/or governments that want to offer Supercharging in locations not served by Tesla's network. I think this would be in the spirit of what Tesla is trying to accomplish.GeekEV said:
TonyWilliams
Well-known member
davewill said:
Competitors can actual do this without a license fee. Just adopt Supercharger standard and install Supercharger stations. Simple.
Of course, GM, Nissan, BMW, et al, won't be able to use the Tesla installed stations without paying the fee.
Travis
Well-known member
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/16/tesla-patent-supercharger-station_n_5500724.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Four days after CEO Elon Musk offered most of his company’s patents to rivals in hopes of cultivating a bigger electric car market, Nissan and BMW are “keen on talks” to cooperate on charging networks, the Financial Times reported on Sunday."
Yay!!!! That is EXACTLY what I was hoping for
Bring on the adapters.
I could see the "fee" being bundled into the cost of the adapter.
"Four days after CEO Elon Musk offered most of his company’s patents to rivals in hopes of cultivating a bigger electric car market, Nissan and BMW are “keen on talks” to cooperate on charging networks, the Financial Times reported on Sunday."
Yay!!!! That is EXACTLY what I was hoping for
Bring on the adapters.I could see the "fee" being bundled into the cost of the adapter.
adric22
Well-known member
Just because Tesla has this model of paying for the superchargers up front, does not mean everyone will have to do that. I have not seen anything that suggests this is the only way it could happen. I see no reason why other manufacturers couldn't take an approach of a pay-per-use scenario. I don't know if the superchargers have card readers of any kind, but there could be a smart-phone app that people might be able to use to authorize and pay for a charge at a particular station.
But until some way exists to physically plug a Tesla station into a non-Tesla car, it is sort of a moot point.
But until some way exists to physically plug a Tesla station into a non-Tesla car, it is sort of a moot point.
adric22 said:
Musk has stated this would be one of the requirements.
Frankly, this will help minimize cost and upkeep of the SC stations, add to the convenience factor and therefore speed adoption of EVs.
I could see them moving to an app process. The SC does register the vehicle VIN so a charge could be made seamlessly? However, the free for life is awfully attractive as a marketing tool.