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LEAFer
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Delivery Date: 19 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 000215
Location: Sacramento Area

NAV Quirk could cause Range Trouble

Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:30 pm

I mentioned somewhere in another thread a couple days ago about a problem I experienced with the NAV. I had intended to give a more comprehensive report on the entire experience, but still have not found the time. So here goes, just on the NAV problem.

On Saturday 3/12 I set off on an ECO Range Test Tour visiting Bassman. The objective was to purposely emulate his daily commute home (in the mid 60's in terms of miles). Before pulling out of my garage I entered his address in the foothills (around Angels Camp, CA) into the NAV without any trouble. I had also done some pre-planning checking Google Maps and elevations (1,500 feet). I had never been to Angels Camp, nor was I familiar with the (significant) terrain along the route, and I knew ahead of time that I might encounter a very low state of charge.

The Angels Camp, CA area in the foothills consist of very steep terrain and twisty mountain roads along ridges with few chances for "ridge jumping" (interconnecting roads).

I will postpone further the more detailed report of Range, SOC, etc. But after a significant hill climb the (polite female) NAV voice informed me
You might not be able to reach destination. Press button to check.
. This happened as the Range Estimate (42) crossed below DTD (Distance to Destination) on the NAV. So far so good; no worries, I had 43 miles to go, but had reached a significant elevation, and was doing just fine with the Average Energy Economy (3.6mpk). But here goes the NAV system problem: As I approached a significant turn-off ... no notification from the NAV. Being unfamiliar with the area I was “blissfully” :?: unaware and merrily continued on the designated route, with 10 miles DTD, when another 5 miles later the (polite female) NAV voice informed me
The route to your destination includes roads through incomplete map areas. Voice guidance will not be provided in these areas.
( I have a recording of this. ) I seem to also recall the first instance of this “warning” included words to the effect that “these roads will be shown in blue” (which they now were – on the unreachable ridge) and “follow all traffic regulations” (or something like that). At this point -- based on the miles from origin -- I should have reached my destination, but now realized I was miles beyond the turn off, and the NAV display was indicating my destination on an apparently unreachable ridge only 3.7 miles away. I had kept an eye on the NAV’s DTD as well as the Range along the way, but really had no indication of a problem (just a few miles earlier DTD had been the (approximate) expected 10 miles).

( There was no cell-phone coverage … it took almost a mile to find a safe turn-around, and I then backtracked 6 miles to the nearest town (and the DTD on the NAV increased to more than 20 miles at one point). With 2 SOC bars and “low battery charge” message, and 10 (real unknown terrain) miles to go, I “grabbed” a 120V outside outlet at a gas station and called Bassman from the station’s Mini-Mart landline … the “rest of the story” some other time. )

Suggestion to Nissan (NAVTeq?): If ...
The route to your destination includes roads through incomplete map areas. Voice guidance will not be provided in these areas.
would you PLEASE TELL ME THAT AHEAD OF TIME !!! :!: i.e. when I enter the destination in the NAV ! So that I am aware of a potential problem ?! And not trust the NAV ! ... when I am closer to my Destination ... or when the NAV might be silent while I should be taking significant turn-offs ?! :x

TIA ! (Thanks-In-Arrears :lol: )
2011 Silver SL+QC [Mfg: 11/2010] 36mo/15k LEASE
06Jun2013 Status [28.5 months][34,173 miles][11 bars]
Lost CapacityBar 6/6/13 @34,173 miles while in LEAF Battery Monitor: 83.41%, 71.4F (avg); cool overnight;

kolmstead
Posts: 479
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:07 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 000257
Location: Ridgecrest, California (100 miles east of Bakersfield)

Re: NAV Quirk could cause Range Trouble

Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:24 pm

Definitely a bug in Nav, if it let you miss a turnoff. As much as I'd like to rely upon just the car's navigation, I guess some time spent online planning a trip is worthwhile, especially when you have limited range. Trust, but verify.

But you entered the trip with the right attitude... it was a test. So I'm guessing that you weren't all that stressed out when the car failed the test. People who jump in and go w/o planning won't be so cheerful afterward.

I'd have to rate the navigation system and the range estimator as the two most unreliable systems in a LEAF...

-Karl

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LEAFer
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Location: Sacramento Area

Re: NAV Quirk could cause Range Trouble

Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:22 pm

kolmstead wrote:But you entered the trip with the right attitude... it was a test. So I'm guessing that you weren't all that stressed out when the car failed the test. People who jump in and go w/o planning won't be so cheerful afterward.

Actually ... the LEAF PASSED THE TEST 8-)

I traveled an extra 15+ miles compared to what it needed to Bassman's place. I did not run out (but came close). I "tanked" a little extra (90minutes) at the gas station to MAKE SURE I would not run out in an inconvenient spot. And in the end I had 8 miles left (three "---" had not come on yet but was probably just a hair away). Those 8 miles are probably the 120V charge.

Still ... I traveled an extra 15+. So ... if you know the roads and terrain ... after a little practice and some slowing in sections ... it's doable.

Bassman should probably chime in here. :P (Thanks for the L2 and burgers!)
2011 Silver SL+QC [Mfg: 11/2010] 36mo/15k LEASE
06Jun2013 Status [28.5 months][34,173 miles][11 bars]
Lost CapacityBar 6/6/13 @34,173 miles while in LEAF Battery Monitor: 83.41%, 71.4F (avg); cool overnight;

Bassman
Posts: 277
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:30 am
Location: Angels Camp, CA

Re: NAV Quirk could cause Range Trouble

Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:20 pm

If the Nav system hadn't messed up, he wouldn't have had to charge at the gas station and probably would have made it to my place with about 20 or so miles of range still left. So know I know my LEAF will make it here, but it'll have to be charged on 240 volt at work to get a full charge in the 10 hours I'll be there. That means I have to get the 120 volt L1 modified for 240 volt and also get a Quick 220 adapter. ;)
Glenn
Ocean Blue SL w/QC,
Delivered 4/29/2011- VIN# 756
34,800 miles so far (2/20/2013) Still 12 bars @ 100% charge, but range has reduced by about 10 to 12 %
2012 Pearl White (Blizzard) Rav4 EV

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LakeLeaf
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Re: NAV Quirk could cause Range Trouble

Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:38 pm

When I travel around Europe, I always have a GPS with me (actually usually three - my TomTom, my Garmin handheld, and of course the cell phone with Google maps). I tend to turn on the TomTom and use it. Often times, the car I rent also has GPS - so I tend to drive with two voices talking to me (heck - it's still better then one wife trying to give directions!).

I'm always surprised how they route differently. I tend to find that the TomTom (which I update regularly) is way more accurate then the car GPS. The car GPS is often years out of date - even for new cars. It sounds like the Leaf has similar issues. Bummer.

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LEAFer
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Re: NAV Quirk could cause Range Trouble

Sat Mar 19, 2011 9:05 am

LakeLeaf wrote:... so I tend to drive with two voices talking to me (heck - it's still better then one wife trying to give directions!).

:lol:

Oh boy ... duck! Incoming ! :lol:
2011 Silver SL+QC [Mfg: 11/2010] 36mo/15k LEASE
06Jun2013 Status [28.5 months][34,173 miles][11 bars]
Lost CapacityBar 6/6/13 @34,173 miles while in LEAF Battery Monitor: 83.41%, 71.4F (avg); cool overnight;

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evnow
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Re: NAV Quirk could cause Range Trouble

Sat Mar 19, 2011 9:18 am

Leafer, I hope you gave this feedback to CSR.

BTW, the NAV itself has more features than my low end Garmin. It shows lanes and also a useful countdown in ft when near a turn. I've used carwings to plan a trip and download to the car - and it works well. We have to wait a little for the car to download the directions and then use it (not a big deal since we are driving near home at that point).

LakeLeaf wrote:... so I tend to drive with two voices talking to me (heck - it's still better then one wife trying to give directions!).

I was telling my wife that I'd change the voice on Garmin since I don't trust female voices when it comes to directions :twisted:
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to 5/25/2018
Model 3 : 5/10/2018 to ?

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Jimmydreams
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Re: NAV Quirk could cause Range Trouble

Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:04 am

LakeLeaf wrote:- so I tend to drive with two voices talking to me .


OT, but funny....

As an air traffic controller, we talk to the airplanes as well as take/give "calls" to other controllers, as well as listen and yell verbally to other controllers not to mention thinking rather hard about what we're doing....All at the same time.

So my friend Pat was working a busy sector one day and simultaneously had someone call his "phone" (which just comes in over our headset) as well as having 2 pilots call simultaneously on the frequency. He was busy and somewhat flustered and keyed his mic and said to everyone "EVERYBODY STAND BY, I HAVE TOO MANY VOICES IN MY HEAD!!"

Needless to say, we all stopped in our tracks and said "did he just say that on the frequency?"

Much laughter ensued and he has yet to live that one down.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread. :mrgreen:
JimmyD
http://www.jjhamilton.com/solar
Blue SL Leaf delivered 1/7/2011
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LEAFer
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Re: NAV Quirk could cause Range Trouble

Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:26 am

Jimmydreams wrote:Much laughter ensued and he has yet to live that one down.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread. :mrgreen:

Cute ! Thanks for that OT humor :P
2011 Silver SL+QC [Mfg: 11/2010] 36mo/15k LEASE
06Jun2013 Status [28.5 months][34,173 miles][11 bars]
Lost CapacityBar 6/6/13 @34,173 miles while in LEAF Battery Monitor: 83.41%, 71.4F (avg); cool overnight;

LEAFguy
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Re: NAV Quirk could cause Range Trouble

Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:59 am

In-vehicle navigation systems have become extremely complex systems, due to all of the features available. As a result, it isn't always easy (and sometimes fairly difficult) to figure out what may be accomplished with the system. A couple of things could have prevented this from happening. After a destination is selected and the route is programmed try this:

Select the "Route" menu. Then select "Route Info". Two choices here may have been helpful. The "Simulation" selection runs the route on the displayed map (which might be useful when traveling in unfamiliar territory), although on a longer trip this can take some time.

The method I prefer is the "Turn List" selection. Rather than displaying the map, the display shows the direction of the next turn (with an arrow), name of the street, and distance to the street. One unusual aspect of this is that the list reads from the bottom up. But once you learn to look at the bottom entry, you always know which direction your next turn is, and how far you drive until you get there. The street name becomes almost irrelevant. (I think multiple presses of the map button may cycle through various screen displays, including the turn list, but I am not positive of this with the LEAF.)

As an aside, you can also split the screen to show long range on one side, and short range on the other (in the "Settings" mode).

As an automotive sales trainer, I will tell you the same thing that I tell sales consultants - spend some time playing with the system. Push all of the buttons and look at all of the screens to see what the system offers. Time spent playing with the navigation system will reward you with a much better understanding of its capabilities.

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