So, owners what range are you getting ?

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jason98 said:
Confused. What does it exactly explains? If I had 90% of capacity then I had plenty of capacity for regen.

Yes, at 100% charge you don't get any regen at all. After about 1.5 miles you start to see some. But you don't get significant regen until you've dropped down below that first bar on the gauge (which is probably like 92% - there is a chart on here someplace).
 
float charge explains it. your car was actively charging and when u first unplug it, the estimated range is bloated. how many bars did you have on the "gas" gauge? from your drive and charge left, i am guessing you had 8-9 bars which is what i see all the time. i have an 18.2 mile RT commute and rarely if ever charge sunday night for commute mon morning.

so i get into car having driven 18.2 miles the previous day from an SOC that was probably 85-90%. i get in and range is around 60-65 miles right?

ok, well one Monday, my SO thought it was her turn to drive Leaf and it was cold, so she plugged it in, and started the pre heat. well, i told her i had not charged from the previous day and she will not take it unless its full. so she took Prius instead. well, this is when car plugged in for like 30-40 minutes. i jump in, range is like 80 miles and i am shocked since pre heat will prevent any range increase on 120 charging.

but i start to drive and range drops pretty slowly for first 2-3 miles, then drops like a rock. by the time i get to work, my range is around 55 miles where it should have been.

so i drove 9 miles and lost 25 miles of range, but had parked it the night before and only had "around" 60 something. really wish i had paid attention to range i had left but cant say that i even gave it a 2nd look. but i have done this same pattern over and over and always had about the same give or take a few
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
how many bars did you have on the "gas" gauge? from your drive and charge left, i am guessing you had 8-9 bars which is what i see all the time.

I had all lighted up but 2 top.

DaveinOlyWA said:
but i start to drive and range drops pretty slowly for first 2-3 miles, then drops like a rock. by the time i get to work, my range is around 55 miles where it should have been.

Exactly what I experienced. I had preheat too and charging it manually without timer.

So, how do I actually measure the REAL range?
Does 80% charge timer option do a precise job?
 
jason98 said:
So, how do I actually measure the REAL range?
Does 80% charge timer option do a precise job?

LOL!! u dont. i have an advantage in that i use 120 volt charging so i can accurately track how much charge i am putting in.

the only real way is to pay attention to where u go and what info you get back from your Leaf.

also, another thing a bit off topic but can be used to judge your distance.

always reset your trip meters and your mpk on the efficiency menu so you can track your mpk performance that day and keep in mind, your usable batt capacity is between 20-21 kwh. i can pretty much guarantee that it is not 24

**edit** an afterthought; i was really really anal about watching the estimated range but that only lasted about 2 weeks. i began to realize that what i was looking at was realistically nonsense. this was the Car predicting the future and it could predict it just as well as i could and if you knew about my stock performance over the past 2 years you would know i really SUCK at it!!

i found that the only real way to know how far you had left was to know how much you had used. if charging to 80% u can figure that you have 16 kwh to use before hitting turtle. now if u r averaging 4 mpk that is 64 miles and i can guarantee that i am within 2-3 miles.

now the fact that you went from 4.1 to 4.2 from the main gauge means your real performance is probably between 4.5 and 5.0. i would say higher but the # of stops you have scares me and i am willing to bet i am within .1 to .2 of that.

so your realistic range is probably 72 to 80 miles. so driving 16.6 miles and having what u have left is right about where you should be.
 
Is the car somehow using cabin temp in it's range calc?

Or is the pre heat artificially increasing the estimated range , until the pack cools once on your way for a bit.?
 
kmp647 said:
Is the car somehow using cabin temp in it's range calc?

Or is the pre heat artificially increasing the estimated range , until the pack cools once on your way for a bit.?

No. The pack is not in the cabin.

Also I think we should not over emphasize the effects of temperatures on pack performance because it is really not much of a factor.
 
This is making me crazy and I don't have the car yet. :D

We've got three things happening in parallel here and it's going to take Leafers some time to really grok what's happening.

- First, we have energy in the battery. If we charge to 100% we've got 24kWh of stored energy. This is hard fact.
- Next, we have the driver and his/her habits. A driver transitioning to a Leaf from a high-power vehicle or a driver that's used to driving 20mph over the limit and zig-zagging through traffic does not realize how much energy they use. Rude awakening time! This is erratic, fuzzy, and hard to predict.
- Third, we have the computer in that car that's trying to be helpful and supportive but it's being misunderstood by most. It's trying to take a hard fact, merge it with erratic/fuzzy/hard to predict, and display a number that too many of us want to use as a fact in a court of law. :lol: When it displays 90 miles range, it's saying "hey - based on the energy in the 'tank' and how you drove for the past (30 seconds, minute, 3 minutes), if you keep driving like that then you'll be able to go this far on a flat road with no wind." Throw in a hill, wind, or a lead foot and all bets are off.

The same way we don't automatically trust any nav system's "turn right now" and turn into the side of a building, we should not bet our life on the range meter. What do we know for sure? What can we trust? We know if we filled the 'tank' the night before, and we know that the 'fuel gauge' shows us how much energy we have in the tank. When we learn the car we'll know how far we can travel based on where and how we drive.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
i found that the only real way to know how far you had left was to know how much you had used. if charging to 80% u can figure that you have 16 kwh to use before hitting turtle. now if u r averaging 4 mpk that is 64 miles and i can guarantee that i am within 2-3 miles.
Couldn't you estimate your remaining range based on the "bars" remaining (i.e., the "gas gauge")? In other words, if you know that you typically get about 6 miles per bar, then you should have pretty good idea of how far you can drive, independent of the whims of Nissan's range calculation algorithm. I'm thinking this should be no different than getting a feel for the gas gauge on a typical ICE car. Granted, the reported SOC might not be totally precise, but I'm thinking it shouldn't be all *that* far off.
 
abasile said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
i found that the only real way to know how far you had left was to know how much you had used. if charging to 80% u can figure that you have 16 kwh to use before hitting turtle. now if u r averaging 4 mpk that is 64 miles and i can guarantee that i am within 2-3 miles.
Couldn't you estimate your remaining range based on the "bars" remaining (i.e., the "gas gauge")? In other words, if you know that you typically get about 6 miles per bar, then you should have pretty good idea of how far you can drive, independent of the whims of Nissan's range calculation algorithm. I'm thinking this should be no different than getting a feel for the gas gauge on a typical ICE car. Granted, the reported SOC might not be totally precise, but I'm thinking it shouldn't be all *that* far off.
That's what I'm doing, to a certain extent. I live in a hilly area, so I pretty quickly gave up on the range calculation. It seems to be heavily biased to the last 5 miles of driving, which in our case is all uphill. The SOC bars seem to be fairly reliable with respect to remaining charge. The problem is your consumption varies depending on: (1) terrain, (2) speed, and (3) accessory usage (climate control, primarily). So the short answer is that you need to drive the car for a while to get a feel for how fast the SOC bars disappear, based on your local terrain and driving behavior.

Example: Dropping my wife off at her Tuesday meeting burns approx 1 bar getting there and 1.5 bars getting back, if I don't use the freeway, ambient temperature is 40-45 degF, with climate control set to 65 degF. That's pretty consistent, but I expect it will change as it warms up and the heater doesn't run as often. One-way distance is approx 10 miles, BTW.
 
jason98 said:
So, how do I actually measure the REAL range?

There is no such thing as REAL range. YMMV - and vary a lot.

For a given trip - Leaf shows the trip miles/kwh. You multiply that by 24 kwh - you get an estimate of range - if you drive the same way on average. But remember that the last 4 kwh of that is with battery low warning ...

I get say 3.8 m/kwh in my trip to work and back. This is without using climate one way. I go down a 900 ft hill (apart from smaller hills) and come back the same way. If I were to continue driving in the same route the same way without recharging - and the temperature remains the same - I can expect 3.8*24 = 91 miles of range - but when I hit about 76 miles, I can expect battery low.

The range display just tells you the estimate range if you drive the same way you have been driving in the past X minutes/hourse and the weather and terrain etc didn't change. Leaf can't predict your future drive - it just projects using your past records.
 
EVNOW,
I saw your efficiency ranking today, 7.8 miles/kWh. Yowsers, how do you get your eff up so high? I'm lucky to hit 5 miles/kWh..... IF the weather is warm enough and IF there aren't any hills on my route and IF my speed is 25~28 mph and IF I hit all the signals lucky. :roll:

Some Japanese driver hit over 10 miles/kWh today.
 
Hello,
I was just looking at Tue Wed commutes. Exact same route (19.7 miles) at the same time of day with no acc on, 3.1 kWh consumed Tue (6.45 m/kWh) and 4.5 kWh consumed Wed (4.37 m/kWh). I'm tying to be as consistent as possible.
 
bowthom said:
Hello,
I was just looking at Tue Wed commutes. Exact same route (19.7 miles) at the same time of day with no acc on, 3.1 kWh consumed Tue (6.45 m/kWh) and 4.5 kWh consumed Wed (4.37 m/kWh). I'm tying to be as consistent as possible.
You've just experienced the problem solved by standardized off-road tests. It's really hard to be consistent in the real world. Some of the old-skool EVers can appear to be a bit smug, but they've learned how to drive efficiently. They've had to as earlier EVs have closer to 40 miles of usable range than our 75-100.

Hang in there!
 
bowthom said:
Hello,
I was just looking at Tue Wed commutes. Exact same route (19.7 miles) at the same time of day with no acc on, 3.1 kWh consumed Tue (6.45 m/kWh) and 4.5 kWh consumed Wed (4.37 m/kWh). I'm tying to be as consistent as possible.

Even only a slightly heaver foot can cost you .5 mpkWh very easily. So your driving technique need to be EXTREMELY consistent. Not only that, but the circumstances (beyond whether you use climate control or not) of your drive need to be very consistent too.

Depending on the way I drive, and at what speed, and in what kind of traffic, can make my energy usage vary from between 3mpkwH to 3.75mpkwh, and that's just based on using SOC bars, not the silly Carwings figure or the car's display (which routinely tells me I'm getting 4.2 mpkWh).
 
palmermd said:
garygid said:
CARWINGS lies.
computers don't lie. GIGO.
No, but computer programs can and do have bugs. There is clearly something wrong with what CARWINGS is reporting. It remains to be seen whether it is due to incorrect calculation in CARWINGS, incorrect data design in what the car is sending, a bug in the car's firmware, or a hardware unit not transmitting data correctly.

Ray
 
planet4ever said:
palmermd said:
garygid said:
CARWINGS lies.
computers don't lie. GIGO.
No, but computer programs can and do have bugs. There is clearly something wrong with what CARWINGS is reporting. It remains to be seen whether it is due to incorrect calculation in CARWINGS, incorrect data design in what the car is sending, a bug in the car's firmware, or a hardware unit not transmitting data correctly.

Ray


Precisely my point. Carwings is not lying, it is only doing what it was told to do. Either the program is garbage, or the data going into the program is garbage, and so the result is garbage. Either way it is a human error somewhere in the chain, not a computer that has decided to lie to us.
 
Yes, the mouth never lies either, it just does what the brain tells it to do! :D
However, it APPEARS that the mouth lied.

The CW could be GIGCGO: Good in, Garbage Calculation, Garbage Out.
 
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