EVSE Plug Adaptors, Cords and Modifications Info

Thank you as well GeekEV.

I purchased Ingineer's L1 to L2 mod and was surprised to see the single most common plug (a dryer plug) for L2 charging was not available for sale on his website along the 110V plug adapter. Now I understand; looks like a liability concern. I'll have to follow your write up and maybe get some help from a friend to put together a bag with the most common plug adapter to carry in my trunk.

Adrian said:

Thank you as well GeekEV.

I purchased Ingineer's L1 to L2 mod and was surprised to see the single most common plug (a dryer plug) for L2 charging was not available for sale on his website along the 110V plug adapter. Now I understand; looks like a liability concern. I'll have to follow your write up and maybe get some help from a friend to put together a bag with the most common plug adapter to carry in my trunk.

Click to expand...

The 120V adaptor is for sale, it is the second option on the EVSE purchase.

EVDRIVER said:

Adrian said:

Thank you as well GeekEV.

I purchased Ingineer's L1 to L2 mod and was surprised to see the single most common plug (a dryer plug) for L2 charging was not available for sale on his website along the 110V plug adapter. Now I understand; looks like a liability concern. I'll have to follow your write up and maybe get some help from a friend to put together a bag with the most common plug adapter to carry in my trunk.

Click to expand...

The 120V adaptor is for sale, it is the second option on the EVSE purchase.

Click to expand...

ok, let me clarify: the 220/240 adapter for use with dryer outlets is not for sale. I already have a 110/120 plug on my EVSE. The fact that a 110/120 plug is considered optional is strange. What exactly can I plug my "upgraded" EVSE in without any plugs? I'm not complaining about the price; the price is great. I simply think the 120V adapter should have been included and the price should have reflected it. It is not "optional"; without it the EVSE is useless.

And I understand that this is likely a liability concern. No problem with that.

GeekEV said:

Here's the write-up I promised ...

• Because electricity flows between hot and neutral on 120v and between hot and hot on 240v, Phil's optional 120v adapter works by connecting one of the L6-20 hots to the 120v neutral. Because the modified EVSE now has an auto-sensing transformer, this arrangement works just fine. Since 120v and 240v aren't normally compatible, you are unlikely to find this adapter anywhere else, so please do purchase it from Phil as part of your upgrade. Also, do NOT try to use it with anything BUT this upgrade or you're asking for trouble.* :!:
• NEMA 10-30 and 10-50 are the older style appliance plugs commonly used by older dryers and ranges. Most appliances use both 120v and 240v internally, but this plug does not have separate neutral and ground pins - so the appliances would use the ground as a neutral (which is why the diagrams above label that pin as W). This practice is no longer considered "safe" and modern appliances now use the NEMA 14-30/14-50 outlets instead.
• However, since the wall outlet side of a 10-30 or 10-50 is typically connected to ground, it is perfectly safe to use the modified EVSE with this outlet since it doesn't need neutral in 240v mode anyway. In the event that you do actually find an outlet that is wired to neutral, the EVSE will not function and will show an error light, so you're safe either way.
• NEMA 10-30 and 10-50 plugs differ only in the shape of the "neutral/ground" pin. With careful modification using a dremel (or similar tool), one adapter can be made to fit either outlet. Simply remove the X'd out portion.
• Because 10-30 and 10-50 plugs often use the ground as a neutral (as per above), you are unlikely to find pre-made adapters as most places aren't willing to connect the W pin on it with the G pin on the L6-20. You'll likely have to special order this, or make it yourself. Like the 120v adapter, for safety's sake do NOT use this adapter with anything other than the modified EVSE.

Click to expand...

I agree, VERY NICE WRITE-UP. And thank you for your time for doing this for everyone. :!:

I changed one word from "or" to "of" (blue/bold/underline).

Above I emphasized in RED some of the safety concerns just to repeat the CAUTIONs. And anyone who does not understand GeekEVs comments with regard to the Neutral/Ground pin wiring ... DO NOT ATTEMPT WIRING YOUR OWN ADAPTERS. And that last comment is appropriate in RED also Instead get it done professionally, as suggested.

*: And where GeekEV uses the word "trouble" I would use "DEATH or MAJOR INJURY or FIRE"

(Sorry for going a little over-board ... but we don't want anyone to get hurt and there are many "novices" reading these forums.)

Adrian said:

EVDRIVER said:

Adrian said:

Thank you as well GeekEV.

I purchased Ingineer's L1 to L2 mod and was surprised to see the single most common plug (a dryer plug) for L2 charging was not available for sale on his website along the 110V plug adapter. Now I understand; looks like a liability concern. I'll have to follow your write up and maybe get some help from a friend to put together a bag with the most common plug adapter to carry in my trunk.

Click to expand...

The 120V adaptor is for sale, it is the second option on the EVSE purchase.

Click to expand...

ok, let me clarify: the 220/240 adapter for use with dryer outlets is not for sale. I already have a 110/120 plug on my EVSE. The fact that a 110/120 plug is considered optional is strange. What exactly can I plug my "upgraded" EVSE in without any plugs? I'm not complaining about the price; the price is great. I simply think the 120V adapter should have been included and the price should have reflected it. It is not "optional"; without it the EVSE is useless.

And I understand that this is likely a liability concern. No problem with that.

Click to expand...

The reason he is offering it as an option is to save people money. He could charge the price of the upgrade and add the 120V cord in for a single price however some people don't want or need the 120V adaptor as they will only use 240v so they can order it without the 120V cord at a savings. I'm sure if it were only available bundled some would complain that they don't need the 120V cord and why should they have to get it. It's pretty simple and well thought out to meet a variety of needs as best as possible, I see it as a smart decision.

EVSE "Detecting" Ground or Not:

In using an old-style (3-pin) dryer socket, how can the EVSE distinguish between a Grounded Neutral and an Un-Grounded Neutral, or even just a Ground or a Neutral?

They are both just a wire that runs back to the earth ground that is attached to the Main Breaker box, right?

What an I missing?
How is the "detection" done?
Thanks, Gary

Thanks, GeekEV, for your write up! It will really help those who want to wire together their own adaptor plugs.

When I get my LEAF, and order this L1 modification, I will probably use PowerGrip Plugs for my adaptors. If I understand your guidelines correctly, I can safely remove the bottom blade on the 14-50 plug (X'ed out in the photo below), and then use it with all three outlets: 14-30 (which my dryer outlet has); 14-50 (the GFCI outlet in the Milbank RV box in my garage); and even 14-60.

Oddly enough, I see that the other PowerGrip in the photo doesn't seem match the NEMA outlets you illustrated, because it has slanted blades on the bottom, like the 10-30 and 10-50 outlets, but a pin rather than either a straight or angled blade on top. Do you think the manufacturer purposely installed the pin to accommodate both outlets? If so, that would sure simplify matters! If not, does it fit some other type of outlet not included in the above illustration?

Looks to me like a 7-20 plug and not a 30 amp plug like it is listed on eBay.

Here's the link for an adapter to get 220 to 240 volt from two separate, different circuit 120 volt outlets.
http://www.quick220.com/220_catalog.htm

garygid said:

EVSE "Detecting" Ground or Not:

In using an old-style (3-pin) dryer socket, how can the EVSE distinguish between a Grounded Neutral and an Un-Grounded Neutral, or even just a Ground or a Neutral?

They are both just a wire that runs back to the earth ground that is attached to the Main Breaker box, right?

What an I missing?
How is the "detection" done?
Thanks, Gary

Click to expand...

Detection isn't necessary. As you say, on the outlet side of the house it's just a wire running back to earth ground. In the case of the 10-30, it is the appliance that makes it a "neutral" by shunting the hot to the ground. In this case, the "appliance" is the EVSE and it doesn't do that. So it remains a proper ground. Make sense?

Yanquetino said:

Oddly enough, I see that the other PowerGrip in the photo doesn't seem match the NEMA outlets you illustrated, because it has slanted blades on the bottom, like the 10-30 and 10-50 outlets, but a pin rather than either a straight or angled blade on top. Do you think the manufacturer purposely installed the pin to accommodate both outlets? If so, that would sure simplify matters! If not, does it fit some other type of outlet not included in the above illustration?

Click to expand...

Yeah, that's some other kind of plug, not a 10-30 or 10-50. It wouldn't fit...

GeekEV said:

Here's the write-up I promised of the "experimental" adapters Phil made for me to use with his L1-to-L2 EVSE mod.

Click to expand...

Nice writeup! I have a few elaborations:

GeekEV said:

The Nissan L1 EVSE (modified or not) will not function without a ground and will show a trouble light. Thus, you can be comfortable in knowing everything is properly grounded if it's working at all.

Click to expand...

You can know it is grounded, but you can't really know it is properly grounded. E.g. the receptacle could have a bootleg ground (ground jumpered to neutral at the receptacle) or a poor (high resistance) ground. [Unless the EVSE actually measures the ground resistance under fault currents, which I seriously doubt.]

GeekEV said:

NEMA 10-30 and 10-50 are the older style appliance plugs commonly used by older dryers and ranges. Most appliances use both 120v and 240v internally, but this plug does not have separate neutral and ground pins - so the appliances would use the ground as a neutral (which is why the diagrams above label that pin as W). This practice is no longer considered "safe" and modern appliances now use the NEMA 14-30/14-50 outlets instead.

Click to expand...

I think of those plugs and receptacles as ungrounded, which is why the diagrams label them as having neutral pins. Connected appliances are either ungrounded or use the neutral as a ground.

GeekEV said:

However, since the wall outlet side on a 10-30 or 10-50 is typically connected to ground, it is perfectly safe to use the modified EVSE with this outlet since it doesn't need neutral in 240v mode anyway. In the event that you do actually find an outlet that is wired to neutral, the EVSE will not function and will show an error light, so you're safe either way.

Click to expand...

Actually, the EVSE can't tell the difference between a ground or a neutral. Indeed, for the limited situation of these grandfathered 10-30/10-50 receptacles, it is really a philosophical distinction. At the first disconnect (panel) on your electrical service, the ground and the neutral are interconnected (and this should be the only place in the building where they are interconnected). Commonly there is a single ground/neutral bar with all grounds and neutrals landed on the same bar. These grandfathered 10-30/10-50 circuits, if they were installed in a code compliant way for use with appliances normally grounded, are always run straight from this main disconnect to the receptacle without any intervening panels or other wiring. So the receptacle neutral is landed on this ground/neutral bar and depending on how the connected appliance uses it, it is either a ground or a neutral. [Neutral = normally current carrying; ground = not normally current carrying.] For the modified EVSE, it is a ground, since it won't be using the conductor as a neutral.

GeekEV said:

NEMA 10-30 and 10-50 plugs differ only in the shape of the "neutral/ground" pin. With careful modification using a dremel (or similar tool), one adapter can be made to fit either outlet. Simply remove the X'd out portion.

Click to expand...

I would caution against this modification of the neutral pin. Sure, you might say it is 99.9% safe, but then the original pins are 99.99% safe. No certified third-party has tested the new pin configuration to say it is good enough. I just don't think it is worth it to save 50 bucks and some space over having separate adaptors if you really want both.

Cheers, Wayne

Bassman said:

Here's the link for an adapter to get 220 to 240 volt from two separate, different circuit 120 volt outlets.
http://www.quick220.com/220_catalog.htm

Click to expand...

Adding to that (and we had this discussion at our meeting yesterday morning) the outlets also have to be on different segments of the building's wiring. So in a household with 120v outlets, you'll have the 240v coming in at the service panel basically split into two 120v segments, each servicing about half of the building. You will have to hunt around a bit to figure out which outlets are served by which.

mwalsh said:

Bassman said:

Here's the link for an adapter to get 220 to 240 volt from two separate, different circuit 120 volt outlets.
http://www.quick220.com/220_catalog.htm

Click to expand...

Adding to that (and we had this discussion at our meeting yesterday morning) the outlets also have to be on different segments of the building's wiring. So in a household with 120v outlets, you'll have the 240v coming in at the service panel basically split into two 120v segments, each servicing about half of the building. You will have to hunt around a bit to figure out which outlets are served by which.

Click to expand...

Informational note: use of this device will generate unwanted EMI in the house wiring. Probably not a big deal for temporary use.

Cheers, Wayne

wwhitney said:

GeekEV said:

NEMA 10-30 and 10-50 plugs differ only in the shape of the "neutral/ground" pin. With careful modification using a dremel (or similar tool), one adapter can be made to fit either outlet. Simply remove the X'd out portion.

Click to expand...

I would caution against this modification of the neutral pin. Sure, you might say it is 99.9% safe, but then the original pins are 99.99% safe. No certified third-party has tested the new pin configuration to say it is good enough. I just don't think it is worth it to save 50 bucks and some space over having separate adaptors if you really want both.

Click to expand...

If you are making your own cord and really want to have a dual 10-30/10-50 adaptor, I suggest looking into something like the Levition 287-T plug, which is a dual 10-30/10-50 plug. It ships with two neutral pins so you can wire it for either plug type. If the construction allows field swapping of the neutral pin without much trouble, then that would be a good solution.

Cheers, Wayne

wwhitney said:

I would caution against this modification of the neutral pin. Sure, you might say it is 99.9% safe, but then the original pins are 99.99% safe. No certified third-party has tested the new pin configuration to say it is good enough. I just don't think it is worth it to save 50 bucks and some space over having separate adaptors if you really want both.

Click to expand...

Just to be clear, I never said that particular thing was safe, let alone 99.9% safe. I'll leave that decision to you and other readers to make. If I were using it as my permanent charger, it might make me nervous too. But as a temporary solution for opportunity charging, I'm personally OK with it. If you're not, as you say, get two.

wwhitney said:

... I suggest looking into something like the Levition 287-T plug, which is a dual 10-30/10-50 plug. Cheers, Wayne

Click to expand...

Oddly enough that Leviton page shows a photo with the same plug pin-out as the power grip plug with a GROUND pin rather than a flat blade in the top center position :shock: And yet they specifically mention 10/30 & 10/50 while the "Configuration" diagram shows a straight blade.

And, as far as the PowerGrip three blade plug is concerned: that's not a NEMA 7. It's a TT-30 (120V 30 amp). (This still does not explain the Leviton page photo.)

Edit: Sorry ... I should have included a link: http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpItmDspRte.jsp?item=2726&section=10918

Right next to my 3-pin (old style) dryer socket, I have two duplex sockets (4 places to plug in), and one duplex socket is wired to Line1 and Neutral, the other duplex socket to Line2 and Neutral.

So, I have the "Sneaky" 240v easily available there by using one socket from each of the two duplex-sockets.

If you wire a "Sneaky" 2x120v-to-240v "adapter" cord yourself, for best safety, you should wire only 2 wires (the "hot" wire and the ground pin) from one 5-15 plug, and then ONLY ONE wire (the hot wire) from the other plug. DO NOT wire the Neutral wire from either plug.

Then, if the hot/neutral is miswired in the wall sockets, the adapter is much less likely "Blow Up".

GeekEV said:

wwhitney said:

I would caution against this modification of the neutral pin. Sure, you might say it is 99.9% safe, but then the original pins are 99.99% safe. No certified third-party has tested the new pin configuration to say it is good enough. I just don't think it is worth it to save 50 bucks and some space over having separate adaptors if you really want both.

Click to expand...

Just to be clear, I never said that particular thing was safe, let alone 99.9% safe.

Click to expand...

Sorry if I wasn't being clear, that was the general (rhetorical) you, not the personal you. Really I was just trying to say that at first glance, the modified pin won't be as safe as an unmodified pin, so I wouldn't do it.

Cheers, Wayne

LEAFer said:

And, as far as the PowerGrip three blade plug is concerned: that's not a NEMA 7. It's a TT-30 (120V 30 amp). (This still does not explain the Leviton page photo.)

Click to expand...

Without dimensions its difficult to tell them apart. Thats why these charts don't tell the whole story. But it does make much more sense that they would put the plug with a handle on the TT (Travel Trailer) plug. sorry if I created some confusion with my post.