Battery degradation info, 80% vs. 100% daily charge

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barsad22

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Messages
142
Location
Berkeley, CA
Hello -
I know that Nissan has not released the tech specs on the battery yet (does anyone know when and if this will happen?), but is there any good information out there about the battery degradation for charging daily at 80%, 90% and 100%? Also it seems murky on how much quick-charging (say five times a week) would damage the battery.
The only information I've seen from Nissan is that the battery will likely lose 20% of its capacity every five years (I'm assuming they mean that will happen even with the "Long Life" (80%) charge schedule).
But I would really like to know how much more capacity the battery will lose over time if you charge beyond the 80%. I've been driving the car for three weeks now and 80% can only safely get you about 50 road miles on the highway.

Thanks,
Josh
 
barsad22 said:
I've been driving the car for three weeks now and 80% can only safely get you about 50 road miles on the highway.

I only tried charging to 80% the one time, but I got a very definite 60 miles (and probably could have gone 70 miles) with no climate control and 65mph speeds. Now that was a bit too tight for my liking (finished the day with something like 16 miles left showing available, which you always have to take with a grain of salt or two), so I haven't done it since - I figure 100% all the time, and I'll just take the consequences as they come.
 
with moderate climate controls, i am only getting a safe 70 miles at freeway speeds with 100 % charge. so ya, 50-55 @80% sounds about right.

i only use 120 volt which i thought to be inconvenient due to its slowness, but it now seems to be an advantage. i am simply plugging in before i go to bed and its giving me a 90+% charge which is what i seek 6 of 7 days anyway.

Saturday, i try to be as full as possible because that is our only day off together and that is when we do the most driving. started last Saturday at 9 of 10 bars and still managed 87 miles at street speeds with probably 5-7 miles to spare
 
Right, it could be 60 miles without climate control.
But I'm a little worried about "taking the consequences as they come," if the degradation is another 20% in 5 years on top of the disclosed 20%. At 60% maximum battery capacity in 5 years (that may be a worst case scenario), some people's daily commutes will be put out of reach even when fully charged. I hope Nissan can provide some clarity on this point, especially since they didn't really disclose the "recommended Long Life charge" until buyers are on the lot.
Josh

mwalsh said:
barsad22 said:
I've been driving the car for three weeks now and 80% can only safely get you about 50 road miles on the highway.

I only tried charging to 80% the one time, but I got a very definite 60 miles (and probably could have gone 70 miles) with no climate control and 65mph speeds. Now that was a bit too tight for my liking (finished the day with something like 16 miles left showing available, which you always have to take with a grain of salt or two), so I haven't done it since - I figure 100% all the time, and I'll just take the consequences as they come.
 
barsad22 said:
At 60% maximum battery capacity in 5 years (that may be a worst case scenario), some people's daily commutes will be put out of reach even when fully charged.

So you opportunity charge at work. That was something I figured would be something I should factor into the purchase decision.
 
barsad22 said:
Right, it could be 60 miles without climate control.
But I'm a little worried about "taking the consequences as they come," if the degradation is another 20% in 5 years on top of the disclosed 20%.
I'd be very surprised if the battery degrades that much more because of 100% charging. I figure some 5% to 10% in 8 years.
 
mwalsh said:
So you opportunity charge at work. That was something I figured would be something I should factor into the purchase decision.
Five years from now, with gas at $25.00 a gallon, every gas station will have a charging station. Since no one will be buying gas anymore, they'll be rolling out the red carpet to get EV drivers to come in and buy hot dogs and Slurpees.
 
sproqitman said:
mwalsh said:
So you opportunity charge at work. That was something I figured would be something I should factor into the purchase decision.
Five years from now, with gas at $25.00 a gallon, every gas station will have a charging station. Since no one will be buying gas anymore, they'll be rolling out the red carpet to get EV drivers to come in and buy hot dogs and Slurpees.
But in five years we'll be putting PV car covers over our EVs at work and trickle charging to capacity! No need to to stop in the QuickMart, unless you want to buy a 30 day old hot dog!
 
evnow said:
barsad22 said:
Right, it could be 60 miles without climate control.
But I'm a little worried about "taking the consequences as they come," if the degradation is another 20% in 5 years on top of the disclosed 20%.
I'd be very surprised if the battery degrades that much more because of 100% charging. I figure some 5% to 10% in 8 years.
I agree! 5-10% with average use... I will consider the battery successful if I can drive it in @ 10 years and it tests at about 80% its original capacity. :)
 
There will b some that will achieve those numbers. I am feel that a significant reduction in meeting my needs will happen when it gets to less than 50 miles of range. But art he same time it would still easily meet a large portion of my needs assuming my transportation needs do not change
 
I like all the optimism about EV charging infrastructure and the battery degradation estimates. It's hard to see the future when look at the charging station maps now... the key to building the infrastructure will be to get as many of these on the road as we can to encourage employers and retailers to get on board.
As for the battery capacity, I hope Nissan has some hard numbers for us before the end of this year on recommended Depth-of-Discharge (I've heard 20%, but they're just guesses) and long-term battery degradation at 100% charge daily over 5 years.

Josh
 
Nissan Chat said that charging to 100% will have little impact on the batery life. 4000 L2 chragers are going in in San Diego this year - most this summer according to Ecotality
 
I've only charged to 100% by default. I'll reach 100,000 miles on my LEAF well before the 8 year warranty expires. Then I'll donate my ride for scientific experiments... :twisted:
 
I will go out on a limb here and give my newbie working conclusion, which is ***subject to change*** as new information comes available. I think the recommendation for 80% is for the bulk of drivers out there who are driving far less than 70 miles a day. If you commute requires 100% charging, then do it, don't sweat it. The thing to avoid, IMHO, is charging to 100% each time you plug in, if you are plugging in multiple times a day for short opportunity charging to avoid dramatically increasing the number of 100% charges.

If I charged to 100% every time I plugged in, that wouldn't just be once a day, it would be up to 5 times a day and that is the important thing to avoid, IMHO. Charging multiple times a day makes 80% charging more than adequate for the vast majority of my driving and keeps the car charged up enough all the time for me to be comfortably spontaneous.

g
 
I think the main issue with charging to 100% is that lithium-ion batteries don't like to sit at 100% charge for extended periods of time. If you charge to 100% overnight and then drive your car first thing in the morning, it's probably much less of an impact than if you charge to 100% and then let the car sit for a while on a regular basis. The other impact of charging to 100% is the extra heat on the battery, but that effect is probably very small.

So, if you need 100%, go for it without worry, just don't let it sit at 100% for an extended period.
 
electricfuture said:
Nissan Chat said that charging to 100% will have little impact on the batery life. 4000 L2 chragers are going in in San Diego this year - most this summer according to Ecotality

Here is a funny line. "Nissan Chat said......... :lol: If I had 1% SOC life for each thing Nissan chat said that was 100% wrong I my pack would never degrade for the next 100 years.
 
How about this: 100% charge at L2 verses 100% charge at L1------Is L1 preferable when charging to save battery life :?:

If someone has to charge at 100% daily, and time permitting could use L1 overnight, wouldn't L1 extend battery life by using only 1/3 the amps and therefore have reduced heat while charging the batteries) :?:

I know-----------L1 requires a much longer charging time, 2+ times longer. But, given the opportunity.............I use L1 if I need 100% charge whenever possible.
 
gasmiser1 said:
How about this: 100% charge at L2 verses 100% charge at L1------Is L1 preferable when charging to save battery life?
Nope. Both L2 and L1 are a slow charge as far as these batteries are concerned.
 
davewill said:
gasmiser1 said:
How about this: 100% charge at L2 verses 100% charge at L1------Is L1 preferable when charging to save battery life?
Nope. Both L2 and L1 are a slow charge as far as these batteries are concerned.
------------------------

Thanks. Good to know, since I'm a newbie EV owner(1st EV). I've owned 6 hybrids from Honda and Toyota. So, my battery knowledge is very limited.
 
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