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evnow
Moderator
Posts: 10886
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:41 am
Delivery Date: 25 Feb 2011
Leaf Number: 303
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Dumb**s alert: am I the first to drain it??

Sun Feb 20, 2011 6:41 pm

Split the balancing posts into a new thread : viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2795&start=0
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to ?

AndyH
Posts: 6258
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:43 pm
Location: San Antonio

Re: Dumb**s alert: am I the first to drain it??

Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:03 pm

One thing we do know from the service manuals is the car is aware if any cell group reaches minimum voltage. That triggers an error with the 'check engine' light (CEL) on the dash, and also triggers a 'no drive/no charge' state with the car.

Were there any wrench, CEL, or other dash warnings? Or it more like a computer lock-up?

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rdhauser
Gold Member
Posts: 72
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:30 pm
Delivery Date: 05 Jul 2011
Leaf Number: 5287
Location: Olympia, Washington

Re: Dumb**s alert: am I the first to drain it??

Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:02 pm

Congratulations on being the first!

I would guess that some other issue caused the rapid decrease in range also. I'll also be interested in the resolution (please let there be one!)
Dick
Carwings Name OlyLeaf
Glacier Pearl SLe 005287.
Reserved 4/21/10, Ordered 1/1/11, BLINKed 6/14/11, Delivered 7/5/11, Reserve deposit Refunded 7/8/11.

SanDust
Posts: 1363
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:54 am

Re: Dumb**s alert: am I the first to drain it??

Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:57 pm

rdhauser wrote:I would guess that some other issue caused the rapid decrease in range also. I'll also be interested in the resolution (please let there be one!)

He said he'd be gone for a week so it might be a while before he'll give us a report. But this post from martinr probably sums things up:

The display said 17 miles were left, but that turned out to be "about 5". That's a 12 mile difference. If you take the variance due to speed/terrain into account, maybe we are down to 8 miles. That's less than 10% of the total battery capacitance across more than one charging cycle. It probably doesn't get any better.

Probably just a combination of changing drive cycles and bookkeeping errors. IOW don't count of the display to be accurate all of the time. Someone in another thread with a Vectrix said that the range estimator on that cycle is affectionately called "The Random Number Generator".

smkettner
Posts: 6605
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:13 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2014
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Dumb**s alert: am I the first to drain it??

Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:06 pm

After Kelangst's Leaf goes through a few more charge and drive cycles it would be interesting if he could run it down in that critical range again to see if the trouble repetes.
Or did I miss it?
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV

klapauzius
Posts: 1654
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:19 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 0197
Location: Seattle, Wa

Re: Dumb**s alert: am I the first to drain it??

Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:47 pm

Maybe you are the first, but it happened to me too! On 2/22 I was driving back from SeaTac airport back home, with 26 "miles" on the range estimation. Trip distance was ~ 15 miles. Some driving on I-5, eco mode on, no heating (at 32 F outside temp!) and around downtown the range is down to 8 miles (still plenty to get home, which was by then 5 miles away). At the ship-canal bridge it went into turtle, I barely got off the freeway. 2 Mile from home and after about half the distance it told I would have from the airport, i.e. 13 actual miles driven, it went dead. I actually managed to drive 400 yards in turtle mode. 10:30 pm, wife and screaming kids in the car (which was blocking the right lane of a busy road), just came back from the east coast, cars zooming by and honking, several near misses, I called Nissan for help.

Their initial response:
Sure we will tow you, but it will take an hour for the tow truck to arrive and we will only tow you to the next dealership (10 miles from my home). I said, well its an electric car and arent you supposed to tow me to my home when I run out of battery? Ah, its a battery problem, do you need a boost or a jumpstart??
It was hilarious..no clue about their own product....neither the operator nor her supervisor were aware of special roadside assistance for leaf-owners.

The experience with roadside assistance was quite sobering...
What I find scarier though is this gross mismatch in estimated and actual range. Any ideas if this is normal or a bad battery?

derkraut
Posts: 1433
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 7:39 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 004248
Location: San Diego (Rancho Penasquitos)

Re: Dumb**s alert: am I the first to drain it??

Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:56 pm

klapauzius wrote:Maybe you are the first, but it happened to me too! On 2/22 I was driving back from SeaTac airport back home, with 26 "miles" on the range estimation. Trip distance was ~ 15 miles. Some driving on I-5, eco mode on, no heating (at 32 F outside temp!) and around downtown the range is down to 8 miles (still plenty to get home, which was by then 5 miles away). At the ship-canal bridge it went into turtle, I barely got off the freeway. 2 Mile from home and after about half the distance it told I would have from the airport, i.e. 13 actual miles driven, it went dead. I actually managed to drive 400 yards in turtle mode. 10:30 pm, wife and screaming kids in the car (which was blocking the right lane of a busy road), just came back from the east coast, cars zooming by and honking, several near misses, I called Nissan for help.

Their initial response:
Sure we will tow you, but it will take an hour for the tow truck to arrive and we will only tow you to the next dealership (10 miles from my home). I said, well its an electric car and arent you supposed to tow me to my home when I run out of battery? Ah, its a battery problem, do you need a boost or a jumpstart??
It was hilarious..no clue about their own product....neither the operator nor her supervisor were aware of special roadside assistance for leaf-owners.

The experience with roadside assistance was quite sobering...
What I find scarier though is this gross mismatch in estimated and actual range. Any ideas if this is normal or a bad battery?

WOW! Now that is scary (and embarrassing)! How in the world can a Leaf driver ever trust the "remaining range" indicator?? :o :o :o readings??
Derkraut
Color: Cayenne SLE, ETEC trim
reserved: 5/15/2010
Leaf del. 6/14/2011
Updated on 04/24/2015: 10 bars @ 25.3K+mi., with 100% charge: Bat temp 74.4F, GIDS=200, S=89.33, C=50.19, H=57.15 Traction bat=393.5V, 12V bat=12.0

smkettner
Posts: 6605
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:13 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2014
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Dumb**s alert: am I the first to drain it??

Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:09 pm

klapauzius, How long did you have the car at that point? How many 100% charges had it been? Was it the first time that low? Did you try to turn off and on to see if it would go again?
I bet DW is thinking you are crazy for buying this toy :roll:
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV

User avatar
DeaneG
Posts: 1110
Joined: Tue May 04, 2010 9:20 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 594
Location: Cupertino, CA

Re: Dumb**s alert: am I the first to drain it??

Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:12 pm

Hate to think that the normal "safe range" at speed on the freeway might be about 33 miles: 80% (of charge) of 60 miles at 70mph, minus 15 miles to avoid this potential situation, 48-15 = 33!

Fortunately, that's exactly my roundtrip commute distance.
White SL w/L3, 3kWDC Solar PV

occ
Posts: 265
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 1:14 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Jun 2015
Location: Tustin, CA

Re: Dumb**s alert: am I the first to drain it??

Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:18 pm

Wow...klapauzius, do you remember how many bars were left before you started your journey from the airport? From reading this forum, SOC is prob a way better indicator than that range estimate (although the closest to SOC is the bars, it's pretty grainy). 2 bars left (red) would have been 9-15 miles using 3miles/kwh type of driving.

Also, that was pretty low 32F temperature when you started your homeward trip! I wonder if the "low" ambient temp reduced the battery capacity even more than the bars would indicate, making things worst. eg. the 26 miles were based on your "warmer" battery when you left it at the airport. When you were ready to drive home, the computer wasn't able to adjust (or didn't know how to take temp into account) for temperature, and thus just showed 26 miles of the last estimate when the 32F would really give you 10!

Sorry to hear any kind of LEAF stranding, as it is not good PR. However, thanks for posting your experience since the very knowledgeable people here will give the rest of us more data and info so we would be more aware of what Nissan can't tell us, ie all the scenarios that could strand you. Experience is gold here, IMO.
2011 Nissan LEAF:
Res: 4/21/10 7am
RAQ: 11/23/10 (& ordered)
Delivered: 6/17 vin 4873
Toyota Rav4EV (2/27/13)
4Kw Solar PV

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