I Want my (fast) DC!

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smkettner said:
Jimmydreams said:
rmay635703 said:
[Was the nightmare caused by the local government requiring overpriced "Special" licensed individuals, inspectors and other ideots who know nothing about your charger to approve it?

Yes. Apparently, the city I live in won't approve a simple electrical permit unless they have ridiculous levels of supporting docs. It's CYA on steroids. :evil:
That is where a plug in evse works. Can't be a big deal to just install an outlet. Tell them it is for a welder if you must.

I am not sure why so many get their jumpers in a bunch to plug in an silly appliance.

But therein lies the problem with the city of Oceanside.....they don't seem to care if the plug is for a welder, a dryer, or a recessed can light. 18x24inch drawings signed by a draftsman and engineer are required, among other things. My neighbor built a garage separate from his house....for just basic 110v outlets and fluorescent lighting, same thing....detailed drawings, signed, etc.

The sad part is that if Oceanside doesn't back down a bit, EVP will pull out of Oceanside, so any future Leaf owners may be semi-screwed. :(
 
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=206274519224783089293.00049c15382ade45ba1c9&z=6

Does "fast" mean DC?

IF so, looks like they're most of the way to nationwide coverage.

Is every UK Nissan dealer installing DC?


Lucky Limeys.
 
mogur said:
smkettner said:
That is why many things get done with no permit.
Yep, I'd just put it in myself and keep my mouth shut!
My only fear with something like this is that *if* something goes wrong and burns my house down, I don't want the insurance company to say "it wasn't permitted or installed by a licensed electrician" and deny coverage. If your community is that strict, sounds like AV's quoted install price might be a bargain since they're supposed to handle all the permitting. I knew there had to be a case where having them do it made sense. :lol:

EDIT: Nevermind, I see you're not using an AV unit...
 
edatoakrun said:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=206274519224783089293.00049c15382ade45ba1c9&z=6

Does "fast" mean DC?

IF so, looks like they're most of the way to nationwide coverage.

Is every UK Nissan dealer installing DC?


Lucky Limeys.

Every UK Nissan LEAF dealer is installing one. Those are our 25 starting locations. I am not sure what Nissan's roll out plan is.

These are the fast charge 0-80% in 25 minute chargers. All Leafs in the UK come equipped with the port as standard.
 
Is it possible to have a - not so fast - DC charger?

All of the discussion on the DC charger has really been around the assumption that the DC charger can fill the Leaf to 80% capacity in 25 minutes. This apparently requires some significant electrical infrastructure.

Is the charge rate of the DC port fixed? Would it be possible for someone to design a DC charger that could fill the capacity of the Leaf in 2 hours or 4 hours (something much faster then the 8ish hours required for the standard L2 connection?). Could DC charging be a way to work around the slow AC charge rate in the Leaf?

Would slower DC charging have a negative effect on battery longevity?

Any estimates on price? The L2 chargers are running $800-$1000+, but appear to have about $0.37 worth of electronics in them. With a DC charger, you'd have to do the AC -> DC conversion in the charger - any ideas what the cost of those components is?
 
Nufkin said:
edatoakrun said:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=206274519224783089293.00049c15382ade45ba1c9&z=6

Does "fast" mean DC?

IF so, looks like they're most of the way to nationwide coverage.

Is every UK Nissan dealer installing DC?


Lucky Limeys.

Every UK Nissan LEAF dealer is installing one. Those are our 25 starting locations. I am not sure what Nissan's roll out plan is.

These are the fast charge 0-80% in 25 minute chargers. All Leafs in the UK come equipped with the port as standard.

Well, I suppose we could applaud this as a brilliant move by Nissan UK.

But perhaps the fact that Nissan USA is NOT installing fast DC chargers at all its dealers, is the outstanding display of corporate intelligence.

Think of the THOUSANDS of dollars they are saving, in the multi-BILLION dollar LEAF roll-out!
 
Yes, Very-Fast, or Partially-Fast DC Charging

No, charge rate is not fixed, but is determined by the car's controller

Yes, a Partially-Fast unit could be made, I believe

Yes, is a work-around, IF the EV has the QC Port.

No, no negative effect, if properly controlled.

The Nissan QC is around $20k (or was it around $11k, I forget).

Presumably a 12 kW (2 hour) PQC (Partial-Quick Charger) would not be very expensive, and only need about 50 amps at 240v to power it. Helpful at home, but probably not enough more than a 4-hour charge to justify the cost.

In public, the QC(Quick), or a VQC (Very), or UQC (Ultra) will be necessary.
 
Thanks Gary -

A slower DC charger seems like it would be a good way to get a reasonable charge time. If the cost isn't that high - it might also make for a nice unit for public use too. Being able to charge in 2-3 hours at the Mall would be very attractive - if the charge infrastructure was reasonably priced.
 
I'll tell you what -- installing DC fast chargers at all Nissan Dealers is a lot cheaper than upgrading all the Leaf on-board chargers to 6.6kW units.

Ford is milking their "Charges Twice As Fast" advantage on the (unreleased) Focus EV, and I can't blame them.
A wide network of DC chargers could make a nice counterpoint. "Charge 8x as fast as a Focus EV!"
 
KeiJidosha said:
GroundLoop said:
Ford is milking their "Charges Twice As Fast" advantage on the (unreleased) Focus EV, and I can't blame them.
I'ts hard to blame them because they are right. 6.6kW L2 matters.

Does it? Certainly a marketing error by Nissan to let Ford advertise "twice as fast".

But I expect L2 charge speed may be largely irrelevant to many EV owners.

Most of my driving will be within the overnight charge range. If I drive further, then either rate of L2 charging is not very helpful.

For example, if I want to drive 200 miles, total travel time with DC fast charging is under 4 hours, 3 hours of driving, and two or more recharge breaks, totaling about 40-45 minutes.

Does it matter much if you can make the same trip using L2 charging in 8 hours in you Focus, as opposed to 12 hours in your LEAF?

Without DC, I won't be driving a BEV much more than the overnight full charge range, anyway.

Which is one of the reasons I don't find the focus very appealing.
 
KeiJidosha said:
GroundLoop said:
Ford is milking their "Charges Twice As Fast" advantage on the (unreleased) Focus EV, and I can't blame them.
I'ts hard to blame them because they are right. 6.6kW L2 matters.
6.6 kw is almost the only thing they have over Leaf 2011 - so obviously they will try to use it. We will see what happens by the time Focus is out and Leaf MY2012 also has 6.6 KW charger and the cold weather package ...
 
evnow said:
6.6 kw is almost the only thing they have over Leaf 2011 - so obviously they will try to use it. We will see what happens by the time Focus is out and Leaf MY2012 also has 6.6 KW charger and the cold weather package ...
I just imagine a day where Nissan doubles the size of their battery pack and adds a 6.6 KWh charger and Ford doubles their battery pack too... Nissan gets to announce that it takes the exact same amount of "time" to charge, Ford gets to announce it will take twice as long!

Everybody loves a good conspiracy, but I'm really starting to believe this is what Nissan's plans are! :D
 
Someday I'd love to be able to throw a switch in the garage and feed my PV output straight into the car's DC port - as opposed to converting the PV output DC to AC with losses, feeding it to the grid with losses, waiting until midnight, bringing power back over the grid with losses, sending it to the car's charger, converting it AC to DC with losses, and finally into the battery.
 
walterbays said:
Someday I'd love to be able to throw a switch in the garage and feed my PV output straight into the car's DC port - as opposed to converting the PV output DC to AC with losses, feeding it to the grid with losses, waiting until midnight, bringing power back over the grid with losses, sending it to the car's charger, converting it AC to DC with losses, and finally into the battery.

You would need a 500VDC DC-DC inverter and L3 port on the car, probably not cheap..
 
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