Official Tesla Model 3 thread

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lorenfb said:
InsideEVs May M3 update; https://insideevs.com/news/352626/ev-sales-scorecard-may-2019/

Summary:

1. 2019 YTD (5 months) M3 U.S. - 46K
2. 2019 YTD Average per month - 9K
3. 2018 Q4 M3 U.S. - 62K, average per month - 20K
4. May 2019 M3 U.S. - 14K

Conclusion - Three months in 2018 outsold five months in 2019. M3 YTD U.S. demand compared to 2018 Q4 is weak.

As jlv stated, total spin job.

If you want to claim that North American demand for model 3 has peaked at 50k per quarter (200k per year), then own it!

But you wouldn't want to claim that would you? After all, the short thesis of "limited demand" would be crushed once deliveries exceeds that number, much like how model S demand exceeded projections back in 2015.

It's okay though, once the model Y is produced in volume, I agree that the model 3 sales will be limited, as there's a general preference for CUVs over sedans.
 
Car sales of all propulsion types, segments, and brands are generally reported as year-over-year for a variety of reasons. Car sales are more seasonal than other purchases (tax refunds, tax credits, school year beginning/ending, etc all influence auto sales). EVs in particular are extremely seasonal.

Nissan reports YoY, as do virtually all automakers, and you can see that here

https://usa.nissannews.com/en-US/releases/release-c7941810ebbab96566850cb9380366cb-nissan-group-reports-may-2019-us-sales

And here

https://pressroom.toyota.com/releases/may-2019-toyota-motor-north-america-sales-chart.download

Every month in 2019 has seen a dramatic increase in Model 3 sales as compared to the same in 2018.

At this point in the 2018 reporting cycle Tesla had delivered 17,930 Model 3s in the US. At the same point in 2019 they have delivered 46,425 Model 3s in the US and have simultaneously begun delivering substantial numbers of Model 3s in the EU and China.

YoY sales of the Model 3 in the US have increased nearly 2.6x, not including sales in Canada, the EU, and China.
 
mtndrew1 said:
Car sales of all propulsion types, segments, and brands are generally reported as year-over-year for a variety of reasons. Car sales are more seasonal than other purchases (tax refunds, tax credits, school year beginning/ending, etc all influence auto sales). EVs in particular are extremely seasonal.

Every month in 2019 has seen a dramatic increase in Model 3 sales as compared to the same in 2018.

At this point in the 2018 reporting cycle Tesla had delivered 17,930 Model 3s in the US. At the same point in 2019 they have delivered 46,425 Model 3s in the US and have simultaneously begun delivering substantial numbers of Model 3s in the EU and China.

YoY sales of the Model 3 in the US have increased nearly 2.6x, not including sales in Canada, the EU, and China.
You are comparing a period during which Tesla was still ramping M3 production up in all of 2018 to meet U.S. back orders, so the Y-o-Y numbers won't be directly comparable. Only when we get into the fall and winter periods will we know beyond any doubt how demand is holding up.

Model S/X are a different matter: Model S sales are down about a third (1,025 May 2019 vs. 1,520 in May 2018) YoY, Model X is only down about 5% (1,375/1,450), so the latter is basically flat, and both are down a fair amount for the total of the first five months YoY, so it's fair to conclude that demand has been satisfied for them. And the e-Tron's sales jumped from 253 to 856 in its second month of availability, so it will be interesting to see if that's just satisfying initial demand or whether it will overtake the X. Then there's the EQC arriving later this year, which will provide even more competition for the X.
 
GRA said:
mtndrew1 said:
Car sales of all propulsion types, segments, and brands are generally reported as year-over-year for a variety of reasons. Car sales are more seasonal than other purchases (tax refunds, tax credits, school year beginning/ending, etc all influence auto sales). EVs in particular are extremely seasonal.

Every month in 2019 has seen a dramatic increase in Model 3 sales as compared to the same in 2018.

At this point in the 2018 reporting cycle Tesla had delivered 17,930 Model 3s in the US. At the same point in 2019 they have delivered 46,425 Model 3s in the US and have simultaneously begun delivering substantial numbers of Model 3s in the EU and China.

YoY sales of the Model 3 in the US have increased nearly 2.6x, not including sales in Canada, the EU, and China.
You are comparing a period during which Tesla was still ramping M3 production up in all of 2018 to meet U.S. back orders, so the Y-o-Y numbers won't be directly comparable. Only when we get into the fall and winter periods will we know beyond any doubt how demand is holding up.

Model S/X are a different matter: Model S sales are down about a third (1,025 May 2019 vs. 1,520 in May 2018) YoY, Model X is only down about 5% (1,375/1,450), so the latter is basically flat, and both are down a fair amount for the total of the first five months YoY, so it's fair to conclude that demand has been satisfied for them. And the e-Tron's sales jumped from 253 to 856 in its second month of availability, so it will be interesting to see if that's just satisfying initial demand or whether it will overtake the X. Then there's the EQC arriving later this year, which will provide even more competition for the X.

Everyone knows why S sales are down but don't mention that. The EQC , seriously? LOL.
 
EVDRIVER said:
GRA said:
You are comparing a period during which Tesla was still ramping M3 production up in all of 2018 to meet U.S. back orders, so the Y-o-Y numbers won't be directly comparable. Only when we get into the fall and winter periods will we know beyond any doubt how demand is holding up.

Model S/X are a different matter: Model S sales are down about a third (1,025 May 2019 vs. 1,520 in May 2018) YoY, Model X is only down about 5% (1,375/1,450), so the latter is basically flat, and both are down a fair amount for the total of the first five months YoY, so it's fair to conclude that demand has been satisfied for them. And the e-Tron's sales jumped from 253 to 856 in its second month of availability, so it will be interesting to see if that's just satisfying initial demand or whether it will overtake the X. Then there's the EQC arriving later this year, which will provide even more competition for the X.
Everyone knows why S sales are down but don't mention that. The EQC , seriously? LOL.
The first look/drive reviews I've seen of the EQC are quite good, and judging by them alone (and still waiting on EPA numbers and full tests), If I had to choose between it, the e-Tron and the Model X I'd go for the EQC, as it meets more of my requirements/wants, or at least comes closer than the others. None of them is seriously on my radar owing to their size and price, and Model Y, whenever it happens to arrive, is likewise too big and expensive.
 
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
It's okay though, once the model Y is produced in volume, I agree that the model 3 sales will be limited, as there's a general preference for CUVs over sedans.

It's always the next model, as Tesla's savior, right?
 
lorenfb said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
It's okay though, once the model Y is produced in volume, I agree that the model 3 sales will be limited, as there's a general preference for CUVs over sedans.

It's always the next model, as Tesla's savior, right?

Ha! Another wonderful spin job! Never mind that the model Y is a continuation of the "Secret Master Plan part Deux", because that wouldn't fit the short thesis.

It must be "tesla's savior"! - Did I lay the sarcasm on thick enough there?

The model Y is just business as usual, and that business will produce what you so dearly hope for - a limit to model 3 demand. Until then, don't be so obvious with your spin jobs.
 
GRA said:
EVDRIVER said:
GRA said:
You are comparing a period during which Tesla was still ramping M3 production up in all of 2018 to meet U.S. back orders, so the Y-o-Y numbers won't be directly comparable. Only when we get into the fall and winter periods will we know beyond any doubt how demand is holding up.

Model S/X are a different matter: Model S sales are down about a third (1,025 May 2019 vs. 1,520 in May 2018) YoY, Model X is only down about 5% (1,375/1,450), so the latter is basically flat, and both are down a fair amount for the total of the first five months YoY, so it's fair to conclude that demand has been satisfied for them. And the e-Tron's sales jumped from 253 to 856 in its second month of availability, so it will be interesting to see if that's just satisfying initial demand or whether it will overtake the X. Then there's the EQC arriving later this year, which will provide even more competition for the X.
Everyone knows why S sales are down but don't mention that. The EQC , seriously? LOL.
The first look/drive reviews I've seen of the EQC are quite good, and judging by them alone (and still waiting on EPA numbers and full tests), If I had to choose between it, the e-Tron and the Model X I'd go for the EQC, as it meets more of my requirements/wants, or at least comes closer than the others. None of them is seriously on my radar owing to their size and price, and Model Y, whenever it happens to arrive, is likewise too big and expensive.

Would you like to bet that it has no impact on Tesla sales worth mentioning? S sales are reduced because...........?
 
lorenfb said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
It's okay though, once the model Y is produced in volume, I agree that the model 3 sales will be limited, as there's a general preference for CUVs over sedans.

It's always the next model, as Tesla's savior, right?

You should post on TMC, see how that goes. I think there is a LEAF thread with 3 posts VS the majority of MNL traffic here in the Tesla threads.
 
EVDRIVER said:
lorenfb said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
It's okay though, once the model Y is produced in volume, I agree that the model 3 sales will be limited, as there's a general preference for CUVs over sedans.

It's always the next model, as Tesla's savior, right?

You should post on TMC, see how that goes. I think there is a LEAF thread with 3 posts VS the majority of MNL traffic here in the Tesla threads.

You can find me over there, in 2014 shortly after delivery of my 2013 Leaf. As expected, same Tesla arrogance over there toward the Leaf.
Back then, they were claiming that the MS had a higher efficiency than the Leaf, i.e. MS with about 25-30% more weight and using an
induction motor.
 
EVDRIVER said:
GRA said:
EVDRIVER said:
Everyone knows why S sales are down but don't mention that. The EQC , seriously? LOL.
The first look/drive reviews I've seen of the EQC are quite good, and judging by them alone (and still waiting on EPA numbers and full tests), If I had to choose between it, the e-Tron and the Model X I'd go for the EQC, as it meets more of my requirements/wants, or at least comes closer than the others. None of them is seriously on my radar owing to their size and price, and Model Y, whenever it happens to arrive, is likewise too big and expensive.
Would you like to bet that it has no impact on Tesla sales worth mentioning? S sales are reduced because...........?
Guess we'll see. Do you think the e-Tron won't have an effect? The 856 they sold in May would have otherwise been Model Xs if people wanted a premium BEV CUV (I'm assuming that the i-Pace has a largely different market, although there could be some overlap). As for the Model S, there's a variety of possible reasons; lack of demand for what's basically a 7 y.o.design, waiting for a possible major update, the shift to CUVs from cars, price instability has people waiting for an even better deal, or what have you. It doesn't seem that production is an issue given the short to non-existent wait times, or has that changed?
 
lorenfb said:
EVDRIVER said:
lorenfb said:
It's always the next model, as Tesla's savior, right?

You should post on TMC, see how that goes. I think there is a LEAF thread with 3 posts VS the majority of MNL traffic here in the Tesla threads.

You can find me over there, in 2014 shortly after delivery of my 2013 Leaf. As expected, same Tesla arrogance over there toward the Leaf.
Back then, they were claiming that the MS had a higher efficiency than the Leaf, i.e. MS with about 25-30% more weight and using an
induction motor.


2014 is not now.
 
GRA said:
EVDRIVER said:
GRA said:
The first look/drive reviews I've seen of the EQC are quite good, and judging by them alone (and still waiting on EPA numbers and full tests), If I had to choose between it, the e-Tron and the Model X I'd go for the EQC, as it meets more of my requirements/wants, or at least comes closer than the others. None of them is seriously on my radar owing to their size and price, and Model Y, whenever it happens to arrive, is likewise too big and expensive.
Would you like to bet that it has no impact on Tesla sales worth mentioning? S sales are reduced because...........?
Guess we'll see. Do you think the e-Tron won't have an effect? The 856 they sold in May would have otherwise been Model Xs if people wanted a premium BEV CUV (I'm assuming that the i-Pace has a largely different market, although there could be some overlap). As for the Model S, there's a variety of possible reasons; lack of demand for what's basically a 7 y.o.design, waiting for a possible major update, the shift to CUVs from cars, price instability has people waiting for an even better deal, or what have you. It doesn't seem that production is an issue given the short to non-existent wait times, or has that changed?

The people who wanted an EV, and are brand agnostic, would see that the model X is better in almost all the metrics. The ones who cared about brand were never Tesla buyers to lose and would be buying the e-tron and i-pace. The e-tron and i-Pace expands the EV market, stealing sales away from their existing ICE offerings. Thinking that they're Tesla competitors is a short thesis that has been proven wrong over and over again with the leaf, bolt, ioniq, niro, kona, i-pace, and soon e-tron, taycan, and eqc.
 
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
GRA said:
Guess we'll see. Do you think the e-Tron won't have an effect? The 856 they sold in May would have otherwise been Model Xs if people wanted a premium BEV CUV (I'm assuming that the i-Pace has a largely different market, although there could be some overlap). As for the Model S, there's a variety of possible reasons; lack of demand for what's basically a 7 y.o.design, waiting for a possible major update, the shift to CUVs from cars, price instability has people waiting for an even better deal, or what have you. It doesn't seem that production is an issue given the short to non-existent wait times, or has that changed?
The people who wanted an EV, and are brand agnostic, would see that the model X is better in almost all the metrics. The ones who cared about brand were never Tesla buyers to lose and would be buying the e-tron and i-pace. The e-tron and i-Pace expands the EV market, stealing sales away from their existing ICE offerings. Thinking that they're Tesla competitors is a short thesis that has been proven wrong over and over again with the leaf, bolt, ioniq, niro, kona, i-pace, and soon e-tron, taycan, and eqc.
I imagine there are more than a few brand-agnostic CUV people like me who reject the Model X for the FWD, which make it impossible to carry anything on the roof (esp. kayaks or canoes), never mind the extra cost, weight, unreliability and slowness of operation. Others want a more squared-off rear top round-down to maximize cargo height as far aft as possible and are willing to sacrifice Cd, and so on. The Model X wins for range, charging speed (probably) and network (for the moment). The others all have their good and bad points too, and it's entirely possible to be brand-agnostic and choose one of them over the Model X - it's the mix of features that would lead me to the EQC at the moment, not that it's the best in all categories. Do any of them meet all my major (never mind minor) requirements? No.
 
GRA said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
GRA said:
Guess we'll see. Do you think the e-Tron won't have an effect? The 856 they sold in May would have otherwise been Model Xs if people wanted a premium BEV CUV (I'm assuming that the i-Pace has a largely different market, although there could be some overlap). As for the Model S, there's a variety of possible reasons; lack of demand for what's basically a 7 y.o.design, waiting for a possible major update, the shift to CUVs from cars, price instability has people waiting for an even better deal, or what have you. It doesn't seem that production is an issue given the short to non-existent wait times, or has that changed?
The people who wanted an EV, and are brand agnostic, would see that the model X is better in almost all the metrics. The ones who cared about brand were never Tesla buyers to lose and would be buying the e-tron and i-pace. The e-tron and i-Pace expands the EV market, stealing sales away from their existing ICE offerings. Thinking that they're Tesla competitors is a short thesis that has been proven wrong over and over again with the leaf, bolt, ioniq, niro, kona, i-pace, and soon e-tron, taycan, and eqc.
I imagine there are more than a few brand-agnostic CUV people like me who reject the Model X for the FWD, which make it impossible to carry anything on the roof (esp. kayaks or canoes), never mind the extra cost, weight, unreliability and slowness of operation. Others want a more squared-off rear top round-down to maximize cargo height as far aft as possible and are willing to sacrifice Cd, and so on. The Model X wins for range, charging speed (probably) and network (for the moment). The others all have their good and bad points too, and it's entirely possible to be brand-agnostic and choose one of them over the Model X - it's the mix of features that would lead me to the EQC at the moment, not that it's the best in all categories. Do any of them meet all my major (never mind minor) requirements? No.

Okay, so expand the criteria list, but it still doesn't change the fact that you all were NOT Tesla sales to lose. You wouldn't have ever considered the model X, because it didn't meet your criteria. So if you needed a new car, you would've chosen an ICE car instead. However, with the e-tron and i-Pace now available, you might consider that over the ICE car. See how the EV market expanded?
 
Valdemar said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
Valdemar said:
There is so many T3s on the road in SoCal that I lost all interest in this car.

It doesn't have to be everyone's cup-o-tea. As long as you're in an EV, you're contributing to the mission.
I am for now, but I'm somewhat disillusioned.
Disillusioned about what, the fact that it's sold well? :roll: There are lots of them around here too, in fact I'd say they're Common, two steps from the top on my personal 7 point "numbers I see" scale, below Frequent or Ubiquitous (the latter is for cars like the CivCamCordOrolla, and Prii' could be Frequent or Ubiquitous), but ranking above Unique, Rare, Uncommon and Infrequent.

The Model 3 doesn't meet my needs and wants and I don't care for the frontal look (not that that would be a deal-killer for me), but seeing lots of them doesn't makes me disillusioned. I'm happy to see any and all ZEVs on the road, especially when I'm riding my bike and sitting behind one of them while stopped.
 
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
GRA said:
I imagine there are more than a few brand-agnostic CUV people like me who reject the Model X for the FWD, which make it impossible to carry anything on the roof (esp. kayaks or canoes), never mind the extra cost, weight, unreliability and slowness of operation. Others want a more squared-off rear top round-down to maximize cargo height as far aft as possible and are willing to sacrifice Cd, and so on. The Model X wins for range, charging speed (probably) and network (for the moment). The others all have their good and bad points too, and it's entirely possible to be brand-agnostic and choose one of them over the Model X - it's the mix of features that would lead me to the EQC at the moment, not that it's the best in all categories. Do any of them meet all my major (never mind minor) requirements? No.
Okay, so expand the criteria list, but it still doesn't change the fact that you all were NOT Tesla sales to lose. You wouldn't have ever considered the model X, because it didn't meet your criteria. So if you needed a new car, you would've chosen an ICE car instead. However, with the e-tron and i-Pace now available, you might consider that over the ICE car. See how the EV market expanded?
As I wrote before, they're all way too big and expensive for me, but that won't be the case with others. What matters is whether or not the market has actually expanded, or it's just shifted sales from one car to another and the totals are stagnant. Higher-end cars like the ones mentioned are less affected by the presence or absence of subsidies, but they still are affected. Mass market cars are even more heavily impacted, and I expect a major Model 3 sales spike this month followed by an even larger decrease in July as the subsidy drops another $1,875, and we'll have to see if they can overcome the subsidy differential and keep the market growing.
 
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