2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

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Orient Express

Have you done a 300 mile on a charge run yet? At 5 miles per kWh it’s in the realm of possibility.

Was your run in the article done with much hypermiling? (Rolling in N to stops, carefully per MGMT on uphills, etc..)
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
Orient Express

Have you done a 300 mile on a charge run yet? At 5 miles per kWh it’s in the realm of possibility.

Was your run in the article done with much hypermiling? (Rolling in N to stops, carefully per MGMT on uphills, etc..)

We only had the Plus for a week, and we got close to 300 miles, but the test that I needed to do that I didn’t have time was to run the car to turtle to see where the real bottom was and to be able to be close to a charger so to not brick the car. If I knew what the real bottom was, that would have helped. During the drive I wrote about I had my wife and her girlfriend in the car, and both of them have acute range anxiety syndrome, so I had to err on the conservative side with them or get nagged!

My hypermile is is close to that without the gliding in neutral. Smooth throttle control, using gravity to my advantage looking ahead as far as possible to anticipate traffic conditions and driving in my socks works best for me.
 
OrientExpress said:
lorenfb said:
So the 7.5 miles/kWh is a distorted number and meaningless for a comparative analysis.

No not at all, but I would recommend you read the article once again and understand that the story is not an empirical analysis.

You had wind "pushing" the vehicle to achieve the 7.5 that you reported. Why the need to mislead the MNL forum about an unrealistic
Plus efficiency, i.e. by "throwing" 7.5 miles/kWh out there? You casually report/write something that naive and interested Leaf Plus buyers
potentially consider factually significant.
 
Again no, because the same we used the same route coming and going so one sides tailwind was the other sides headwind.

And going uphill will be less efficient than going downhill. I dare say that even you could achieve exactly the same results.
 
Does the LEAF Plus have this:

http://www.mychevybolt.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8505#p33733

If not, please suggest that to your contacts as a worthwhile improvement.
 
I'm not sure that any vehicle has a low 12v battery warning, but it could be something that would add to the drain on the battery, especially if it was added to the telematics that would message a smartphone app about battery health.

All of today's cars have a constant drain on them from the keep-alive systems, so if the vehicle is not going to be used for a period of time, an outboard battery tender is a good thing to have. I keep them on my cars that don't get used that much.
 
OrientExpress said:
I'm not sure that any vehicle has a low 12v battery warning, but it could be something that would add to the drain on the battery, especially if it was added to the telematics that would message a smartphone app about battery health.
Not quite how I would engineer it.


What you don't want is the car at the airport at midnight dead. In the rain. At 1C or 34F. With a stiff wind.


What you do want is a "check EV system" light turned on with a code indicating that the 12V battery is getting weak, and may fail soon. Ideally this would provide a few months of warning.

Note that other access to the 12V health might be provided to smartphone app, head unit or something else, but that's not the important thing. The warning light before the failure is. How you determine this might be to look at the 12V charging voltage and current. Simplistically: When the car is powered on, before turning the 12V charger on, measure the voltage. Then measured the Ah delivered until the battery reaches "full", remembering to subtract estimated load currents. Use this to determine remaining Ah capacity of the battery. If below a threshold, flag a code. Probably some other clues might be used...

While this, or something similar might not catch all failures in advance, it might catch most.
 
Just want to note that I've driven that route and they are pretty "extreme" examples. I'm more impressed by your uphill efficiency than the downhill. I would have expected it to be < 3miles/kwh. That's a steep haul.

What would be fun would be to see how much regen you get during the drive down from tahoe. You probably couldn't do this since you had just charged. Did you basically stay at 100% for a long time? That is downhill for what feels like forever. I would guess you could get 30 miles of regen or more.
 
webb14leafs said:
What would be fun would be to see how much regen you get during the drive down from tahoe. You probably couldn't do this since you had just charged. Did you basically stay at 100% for a long time? That is downhill for what feels like forever. I would guess you could get 30 miles of regen or more.

That was one of my interests as well, to see how much regeneration I could get on the downhill side. The car essentially started the long downhill at about 92% after going over the South Lake rim climb. For a good part of the that segment, regeneration kept the range decrease at 0, and it wasn't until Placerville that the free ride was over.
 
OrientExpress said:
webb14leafs said:
What would be fun would be to see how much regen you get during the drive down from tahoe. You probably couldn't do this since you had just charged. Did you basically stay at 100% for a long time? That is downhill for what feels like forever. I would guess you could get 30 miles of regen or more.

That was one of my interests as well, to see how much regeneration I could get on the downhill side. The car essentially started the long downhill at about 92% after going over the South Lake rim climb. For a good part of the that segment, regeneration kept the range decrease at 0, and it wasn't until Placerville that the free ride was over.

So it didn't increase your % at all. I would've thought regen would get you up to 100%. Then again, people fly on that stretch, so maybe you can't just coast all the way down.
 
On Interstate 80 down you can have a net gain due to regeneration, but on Highway 50, your regeneration equals your use so it is like coasting. My range really didn't change until I got past Placerville so that was really a gain of about 60 miles. With the combination of regeneration and ProPilot Assist modulating my speed, it was a very relaxing drive compared to how it usually is with everyone jockeying into position for the passing lane stretches.
 
Anybody with the new 62 kWh Leaf e-Plus have the same intermittent A/C blowing warm issue?

Here is the topic:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=26215
 
webb14leafs said:
OrientExpress said:
webb14leafs said:
What would be fun would be to see how much regen you get during the drive down from tahoe. You probably couldn't do this since you had just charged. Did you basically stay at 100% for a long time? That is downhill for what feels like forever. I would guess you could get 30 miles of regen or more.

That was one of my interests as well, to see how much regeneration I could get on the downhill side. The car essentially started the long downhill at about 92% after going over the South Lake rim climb. For a good part of the that segment, regeneration kept the range decrease at 0, and it wasn't until Placerville that the free ride was over.

So it didn't increase your % at all. I would've thought regen would get you up to 100%. Then again, people fly on that stretch, so maybe you can't just coast all the way down.
Uncertain; he said SoC dropped below 92% from Placerville.
 
Wet EV:
Not quite how I would engineer it.


What you don't want is the car at the airport at midnight dead. In the rain. At 1C or 34F. With a stiff wind.


What you do want is a "check EV system" light turned on with a code indicating that the 12V battery is getting weak, and may fail soon. Ideally this would provide a few months of warning.

- - - - - - - - - -
It seems the problem in this case is likely to be failure of the charging system. For decades now, ICE vehicle have had ammeters & idiot lights monitoring the function of charging systems. This would catch charging system problems without detectable use of energy. Similarly, since the current load on the 12v battery at starting is much less in EV than ICE with starter motor, just having a volt meter check of 12V voltage with notification of >14.5 or <12 could monitor charging and non-charging state of the battery.
 
2011RedLeaf said:
Wet EV:
Not quite how I would engineer it.


What you don't want is the car at the airport at midnight dead. In the rain. At 1C or 34F. With a stiff wind.


What you do want is a "check EV system" light turned on with a code indicating that the 12V battery is getting weak, and may fail soon. Ideally this would provide a few months of warning.

- - - - - - - - - -
It seems the problem in this case is likely to be failure of the charging system. For decades now, ICE vehicle have had ammeters & idiot lights monitoring the function of charging systems. This would catch charging system problems without detectable use of energy. Similarly, since the current load on the 12v battery at starting is much less in EV than ICE with starter motor, just having a volt meter check of 12V voltage with notification of >14.5 or <12 could monitor charging and non-charging state of the battery.

Both 2011 and 2015 have an indicator (red idiot light) in the dash to show that the DC-DC converter is not charging the 12-volt battery just like gasoline engine vehicles, but it will not show the actual condition of the 12-volt battery. I assume all model years have the indicator.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIGLVY8Crvg
Alex on Autos compares Nissan Leaf+, Niro, and Tesla. Leaf + comes in a distant last place.
I found the EV range estimates at the 5:50 mark especially interesting. Seen several of these and Kona always comes out on top.
 
Odd that, towards the end of the video, he didn't mention that the LEAF also has a heat pump available and he didn't mention in the summary that the LEAF Plus' range is actually quite close to that of the Niro and better than both the M3 standard and the Bolt.

Pretty good comparison review though, thanks for sharing!

Assuming you can actually buy one, the Kona Electric seems like the best overall value. The lack of a TMS in the LEAF is an absolute deal breaker for anyone living in hot climates, although that would be less of a concern for me as I live in a mild climate.

The MSRP for the LEAF S PLUS in Canada is $44,298 and in BC we can get up to $16,000 in incentives (BC's ScrapIt program, for getting an ICE off the road, provides $6K; BC EV incentive is another $5K; Fed incentive is another $5K) which drops the price to just under $30K (excluding fees and taxes).

The MSRP for the Kia Niro EV is $44,995 with the same EV incentives available, so it's also just under $30K (excluding fees and taxes).

The MSRP for the Hyundai Kona Electric is $44,999 with the same EV incentives available, so it's also just under $30K (excluding fees and taxes).

Ordering a comparably priced Tesla Model 3 though is challenging ;) To qualify for the Federal EV incentive, Tesla created a software range limited, 93 mile version of the Model 3 standard range and you can't actually order that trim level from their website. For all intent and purposes, the Standard range plus is the "base" model when ordering on their website, which starts at just under $54,000 - $10K more than the others and definitely in luxury car territory.

For comparison sake, the Kona ICE "Essential" trim's MSRP is $21K in Canada, which is still almost $10K less than the Kona EV, after all of the EV incentives. Hope battery technology improvements reverse this current reality within the next 5 - 10 years...
 
alozzy said:
For all intent and purposes, the Standard range plus is the "base" model when ordering on their website, which starts at just under $54,000
Tesla was letting people order the $36k USD Model 3 SR by telephone in the US; I don't know if Canada has the same choice. That would work out to ~ 48k CAD. It is actually a tremendous deal because the battery is a software limited SR+ size so you get the SR+ max charging rate for free and you can charge up to '100%' with impunity. And it is a full fledged Tesla.

As for the ~ 10k CAD price difference over an ICE Kona, I think you should count up what you pay in petrol costs for that car and consider your pollution contribution.
 
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