like2bike
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:35 pm
Delivery Date: 19 Mar 2013
Leaf Number: 00581
Location: Long Island, NY

Rapidgate fixed in Europe

Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:40 pm

I found this article about a software change which improves the Rapidgate issue: https://insideevs.com/video-nissan-leaf-rapidgate-problem-solved/

And this is the video that describes the latest quick charge rates: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebhC0lhF_hE

Any owners out there with the new software who can check the charge rate?
2019 Chevy Bolt LT with DCFC and DC I, II named Orion L-ion
2013 Leaf S with QC named Leafy McLeaf Face
Schneider EVlink level 2 charging
Long Island, NY

SageBrush
Posts: 4221
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Rapidgate fixed

Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:33 pm

With "fixes" like that, who needs enemies ?
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

kovadam
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:07 am
Delivery Date: 28 Sep 2018
Location: Hungary, Europe

Re: Rapidgate fixed

Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:54 am

I checked my BMS version, and has the same as the guy has in the video (he has 5SH3C, I have 5SH2C, mine is without battery heater, C is for the 3rd revision of the BMS, 5SH means 40kWh battery pack). However I never needed more DCQC than 1 in a day, so I could not test it, however my Leaf tapers down charging rate much earlier, than seen in older cars, before it was above 60%, when it started to taper down, mine starts with it around 50%, so 10% earlier.

I have a Leaf manufactured end of August or latest start of September.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13870
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Rapidgate fixed

Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:23 am

kovadam wrote:I checked my BMS version, and has the same as the guy has in the video (he has 5SH3C, I have 5SH2C, mine is without battery heater, C is for the 3rd revision of the BMS, 5SH means 40kWh battery pack). However I never needed more DCQC than 1 in a day, so I could not test it, however my Leaf tapers down charging rate much earlier, than seen in older cars, before it was above 60%, when it started to taper down, mine starts with it around 50%, so 10% earlier.

I have a Leaf manufactured end of August or latest start of September.


In colder weather the knee (or "taper" in your words) happens sooner if batteries are cold during start of charge

https://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2018/1 ... -leaf.html
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

arnis
Posts: 953
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:21 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 015896
Location: Estonia, Europe

Re: Rapidgate fixed

Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:44 am

Björn verified that newer Leafs have different tapering:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J92fS73qw8c

With this kind of allowance new Leaf with 60kWh pack will be fine
with refrigerant-air cooling system. It will extract heat at 2-3kW rate.
Though do not expect any faster charging than 70-80kW - fine for a cheap car :)
Short range EVs <30kWh -- Medium range: 30-60kWh -- Long range: >60kWh
Charging: Trickle <3kW -- Normal 3-22kW -- Fast 50-100kW -- Supercharging >100kW

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13870
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Rapidgate fixed

Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:26 am

arnis wrote:Björn verified that newer Leafs have different tapering:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J92fS73qw8c

With this kind of allowance new Leaf with 60kWh pack will be fine
with refrigerant-air cooling system. It will extract heat at 2-3kW rate.
Though do not expect any faster charging than 70-80kW - fine for a cheap car :)


Well that would not be 100 KW now would it?

I think we can expect probably around 95-96 KW peak which would of course be dependent on SOC but even at low SOC, I would expect something near 90 KW. Expect that to last until maybe 50-60% but wouldn't be surprised if it was closer to 40%. Still a significant step up.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SageBrush
Posts: 4221
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Rapidgate fixed

Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:32 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote: I would expect something near 90 KW. Expect that to last until maybe 50-60%

What battery charging peak would expect if you started at a SoC of 10% and battery temp of 110F ?

:lol:
Last edited by SageBrush on Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

arnis
Posts: 953
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:21 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 015896
Location: Estonia, Europe

Re: Rapidgate fixed

Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:04 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
arnis wrote:Björn verified that newer Leafs have different tapering:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J92fS73qw8c

With this kind of allowance new Leaf with 60kWh pack will be fine
with refrigerant-air cooling system. It will extract heat at 2-3kW rate.
Though do not expect any faster charging than 70-80kW - fine for a cheap car :)


Well that would not be 100 KW now would it?

I think we can expect probably around 95-96 KW peak which would of course be dependent on SOC but even at low SOC, I would expect something near 90 KW. Expect that to last until maybe 50-60% but wouldn't be surprised if it was closer to 40%. Still a significant step up.


Well my estimations were correct. 70kW it is.
viewtopic.php?f=55&t=27492

Though even with air circulation/cooling in the pack...cells are very heavily packed, so no more than 2kW of heat extraction.
Though larger pack means C-rate would be slower (at 70kW) than before (at 50kW), that includes driving average load at contant highway speed.
Therefore rapidgate will not be totally solved though better than with 40kW Leafs.
Short range EVs <30kWh -- Medium range: 30-60kWh -- Long range: >60kWh
Charging: Trickle <3kW -- Normal 3-22kW -- Fast 50-100kW -- Supercharging >100kW

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13870
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Rapidgate fixed

Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:31 pm

arnis wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
arnis wrote:Björn verified that newer Leafs have different tapering:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J92fS73qw8c

With this kind of allowance new Leaf with 60kWh pack will be fine
with refrigerant-air cooling system. It will extract heat at 2-3kW rate.
Though do not expect any faster charging than 70-80kW - fine for a cheap car :)


Well that would not be 100 KW now would it?

I think we can expect probably around 95-96 KW peak which would of course be dependent on SOC but even at low SOC, I would expect something near 90 KW. Expect that to last until maybe 50-60% but wouldn't be surprised if it was closer to 40%. Still a significant step up.


Well my estimations were correct. 70kW it is.
viewtopic.php?f=55&t=27492

Though even with air circulation/cooling in the pack...cells are very heavily packed, so no more than 2kW of heat extraction.
Though larger pack means C-rate would be slower (at 70kW) than before (at 50kW), that includes driving average load at contant highway speed.
Therefore rapidgate will not be totally solved though better than with 40kW Leafs.


So maybe you can explain the 70 KW charging system with 100 KW peak?
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

arnis
Posts: 953
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:21 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 015896
Location: Estonia, Europe

Re: Rapidgate fixed

Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:01 pm

This language use suggests Nissan tries to avoid another rapidgate scandal for overpromising.
All they say is that battery could charge at 100kW, but only in very specific circumstances:
not cold (at least 5 bars), not hot (no more than likely 8 bars), when state of charge is
getting close to peak pack voltage (of around 395V) and cell temperatures have been equalized as
some cell cores are cooled much faster than others. Therefore peak 250A (is what conductors will handle).
And due to no cooling (looking at pack production video, there are no fans, no cooling units)
"peak" can be achieved only once per trip (almost the same story with 40kWh overheat).

In most scenarios users are guaranteed to get 70kW charging rate as MAXIMUM expected charging speed
for normal weather (no more than 25*C) (that means below 390V it will be lower, like 65kW and after 395V has been
reached, rate will drop significantly - normal charging speed tapering due to maximum cell voltage limit).
70kW is likely equilibrium point where charging and driving at medium speed in medium weather will
cool down the pack enough for next 180A peak charge rate (70kW).

Like I said, do not EXPECT any faster charging than 70-80kW. The fact that it can do more in ideal conditions
once
is something nobody should rely on for any longer trip.
30 minutes of charging, 35kW of capacity. That gives 2 hours of driving. Again, 30 minutes of charging, 2 hours of driving.
If Leaf e+ had refrigerant cooling unit, it could be able to charge at slightly higher speed than 70kW, maybe 80kW.
But only slightly, as I was also expecting air passages between cells. No. They are extremely heavily packed. Thermal
equalization will take whole night before next 100kW peak can be accepted.
Therefore... it didn't make sense to push refrigerant system into the pack. It would hardly help. I totally agree with engineers.

Looking at my two year old signature, Leaf e+ still gets "Medium range EV" badge from me.
At that time even 40kWh Leaf was totally unheard of.
Short range EVs <30kWh -- Medium range: 30-60kWh -- Long range: >60kWh
Charging: Trickle <3kW -- Normal 3-22kW -- Fast 50-100kW -- Supercharging >100kW

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