Buying a used battery from salvage yards

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MaxLeafPower

Active member
Joined
Jun 29, 2018
Messages
26
Well my 11 leaf officially dropped to 4 bars :lol: . I really don't want to buy a new battery because the car is not worth that much. I'm looking at some salvage yards on the internet. A lot of the wrecked cars don't have the photos of the number of bars on the dashboard so it's very hard to determine which batteries have degraded.

Anyway, right now I'm just asking the salvage yard to email me a picture of the dashboard so I can see how many bars are left. Is that good enough to determine if the battery pack is good condition? Or should have I doing more?
 
If you can't get bar or SOH info, look for a '15 Leaf battery in a salvage yard in the North. Those batteries hold up very well if not run hot too often. A '14 battery would also be a decent bet (again, from Northern states only). Last decent choice would be a '13, but ONLY from a car built after March of 2013. The build month is on a driver's side door sticker. Do NOT buy one from a car built before April of 2013, unless the battery was a warranty replacement installed in 2015 or later.
 
LeftieBiker said:
If you can't get bar or SOH info, look for a '15 Leaf battery in a salvage yard in the North. Those batteries hold up very well if not run hot too often. A '14 battery would also be a decent bet (again, from Northern states only). Last decent choice would be a '13, but ONLY from a car built after March of 2013. The build month is on a driver's side door sticker. Do NOT buy one from a car built before April of 2013, unless the battery was a warranty replacement installed in 2015 or later.

Last year I was talking with my local Nissan dealership and they said they would replaced a used battery but would not guaranty that it would work. This was the service rep so I don't know how much he knows about the Nissan Leafs. Maybe I'll give them another call and see if I can get any more.
 
Just swapping in a less used battery wont work. The battery management system is coded to the rest of the car.

For a successful swap, you need to open the battery, and swap the BMS between the two before fitting it to the car.
 
Dala said:
Just swapping in a less used battery wont work. The battery management system is coded to the rest of the car.

For a successful swap, you need to open the battery, and swap the BMS between the two before fitting it to the car.

Ok, to make a long story short, the service rep said they wouldn't be able to guaranty the work to install a used 2013 battery pack into my 2011 leaf. in order to guaranty it then I would have to buy the new battery pack from them which he also said was the original 2011 battery pack and not the new lizard cell battery pack.

I'll call the dealership again and if they will install the original BMS with the new "used" battery pack.
 
Dala said:
For a successful swap, you need to open the battery, and swap the BMS between the two before fitting it to the car.

However, this is a Nissan dealership we're talking about - while we couldn't get a SD card with the battery pack ID made, perhaps they can. And if they can then they can almost certainly use it to update the pack ID in the car's VCM. No BMS swap necessary.
 
MaxLeafPower said:
He also said was the original 2011 battery pack and not the new lizard cell battery pack.

I am 100% certain he's wrong about you getting an original 2011 pack.

Even if that were plausible, I would pretty much insist on a 2015 (lizard) pack with the fitting kit. You can always check the part numbers - the most recent revisions of the 2015 pack I'm aware of are 295B0-3NF9D and 295B0-3NF9E (depending on whether the car has a heated pack or not).

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=19911
 
Just curious, what is your range nw with 4 bars when fully charged? What weather, temp etc?
 
There also can be fitment problems with '13+ packs into an '11. See replies by Aaron (a well-known Leaf tech in the PNW) at https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattlenissanleaf/permalink/2152761104755315/?comment_id=2152789724752453&reply_comment_id=2152818378082921. He has some replies there.
 
cwerdna said:
There also can be fitment problems with '13+ packs into an '11. See replies by Aaron (a well-known Leaf tech in the PNW) at https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattlenissanleaf/permalink/2152761104755315/?comment_id=2152789724752453&reply_comment_id=2152818378082921. He has some replies there.

This.

I've spoken with Cor directly and he has confirmed that in addition to needing the plug adapter to go from 13+ to 11/12, there are also physical fitment problems with the battery cover (the plastic that goes over the battery under the car). The battery cover was changed slightly, so if you intend to do a pack/pack replacement, you should also get the cover. Additionally, the older VCM (11/12) may have compatibility issues with the newer battery packs, according to EVSEnhanced.

The only guaranteed to work options are:
1) Open both packs and replace all of the cells from a newer pack into the original 11/12 pack, keeping the BMS and wiring harnesses from 11/12. This only works if the pack is 24kWh. You cannot use 30/40 kWh cells. OR
2) Get a pack for the same model year and battery heater combination. Use EVSEnhanced's tool to re-pair the battery pack to the car. OR
3) Buy a replacement pack from Nissan. They will ensure that the pack is compatible with your car and comes with the wiring harness adapter.

If you go with option 3, it's very expensive, but it will NOT come with 2011 cells. All new packs purchased from Nissan use the latest battery chemistry and carry the standard 8 year battery warranty (and 5 year capacity warranty).
 
Dala said:
Just swapping in a less used battery wont work. The battery management system is coded to the rest of the car.

For a successful swap, you need to open the battery, and swap the BMS between the two before fitting it to the car.

And you can't just swap the BMS unless you have the same model year. The BMS wiring has changed between some model years, and using the wrong wiring WILL fry the BMS.

If you're opening the battery, do a cell swap. I doubt the dealership will be willing to do this, as it involves a LOT of manual labor, and involves dangerous voltages (200V+)
 
Goran said:
Just curious, what is your range nw with 4 bars when fully charged? What weather, temp etc?

I'm getting about 25 to 30 miles which is just enough to get me to work and back.


Lothsahn said:
cwerdna said:
The only guaranteed to work options are:
1) Open both packs and replace all of the cells from a newer pack into the original 11/12 pack, keeping the BMS and wiring harnesses from 11/12. This only works if the pack is 24kWh. You cannot use 30/40 kWh cells. OR
2) Get a pack for the same model year and battery heater combination. Use EVSEnhanced's tool to re-pair the battery pack to the car. OR
3) Buy a replacement pack from Nissan. They will ensure that the pack is compatible with your car and comes with the wiring harness adapter.

Looks like my easiest option is to get the battery pack from the same year. This might be a stupid question but how do I know if my car has a battery warmer? The dealership said they aren't able to find out using my VIN.
 
MaxLeafPower said:
Looks like my easiest option is to get the battery pack from the same year. This might be a stupid question but how do I know if my car has a battery warmer? The dealership said they aren't able to find out using my VIN.
2011s with the battery warmer had something called the "Cold Weather Package" as I recall. They might be able to find that detail by VIN.
 
You don't want to get a 2011 battery, or any year used battery manufactured before April of 2013. They will have deteriorated about as much as yours, or if not, will deteriorate rapidly once installed. You need a newer pack plus the adapter kit. 2015 is the best year, with 2014 the next best bet.
 
LeftieBiker said:
You don't want to get a 2011 battery, or any year used battery manufactured before April of 2013. They will have deteriorated about as much as yours, or if not, will deteriorate rapidly once installed. You need a newer pack plus the adapter kit. 2015 is the best year, with 2014 the next best bet.

I was hoping there would be a 100% sure way that a 13-15 batteries would fit but few of the responses have mentioned there could be some problems getting it to work on a 11 leaf.

I don't want to spend $3k on a used battery only to find out it's not working. Then I would have to spend another $3k to get 11-12 battery pack. That means I would end up spending $6k for two used batteries where I could just by a brand new battery pack. Sometimes being frugal costs more in the long run :roll: .

I'm ok if the new battery degrades in the future, hopefully I'm planning on buying a Tesla which has a BTM. Even the new 19 leafs are passively cooled, I don't think Nissan will ever learn.
 
The adapter kit seems to work fine. The issue isn't really that you might get a later battery and find it doesn't work. It's more like a question of whether you can install any Leaf battery on your own. If you can, then the kit shouldn't be a big issue. I think you do need to know whether or not you have the Cold Weather Package, and get the right adapter for that.
 
MaxLeafPower said:
I was hoping there would be a 100% sure way that a 13-15 batteries would fit but few of the responses have mentioned there could be some problems getting it to work on a 11 leaf.

I don't want to spend $3k on a used battery only to find out it's not working. Then I would have to spend another $3k to get 11-12 battery pack. That means I would end up spending $6k for two used batteries where I could just by a brand new battery pack. Sometimes being frugal costs more in the long run :roll: .

I'm ok if the new battery degrades in the future, hopefully I'm planning on buying a Tesla which has a BTM. Even the new 19 leafs are passively cooled, I don't think Nissan will ever learn.


You don't want a 11-12 battery for the reasons that LeftieBiker stated. It's going to wear out very very fast. Also, I had one Nissan EV Help line person tell me that they can't release the refurb packs in the US due to EPA rules, and another rep say "they're working on making them available in the US" Who knows what the reality is and when, if ever, the refurb packs will be available.

You basically have three "good" options:
1) Buy a 13(April+)-15 battery, 24kWH. Open up both packs and swap the cells. Just swap the battery cells--don't try to swap the packs or BMS or cabling or anything. There is some risk that the new battery has been damaged or worn out, but that's pretty unlikely as long as you get a pack from a car in a colder climate and April '13 or newer. This is your cheapest option, but it is a full day's worth of work and you will need the proper equipment (HV gloves, etc).

2) Buy a new battery from Nissan. This will come with the factory warranty and Nissan will do all the work for you. It will run you around $8500.

3) Wait for Fenix Power to release their product. Keep in mind they're a new startup so the risk of failure is high.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=26597&start=70

4) Sell the car


I really wish there was a better option, and I'm as unhappy as you that Nissan raised the battery price. I bought my car expecting to pay $5500 in a year for a new battery, and they raised the price the next month. I'm also unhappy that Nissan won't install a higher capacity battery pack if I'm buying a whole new one, but unfortunately, that is today's reality.
 
davewill said:
Didn't the cold weather package also include either seat or steering wheel heaters? (Can't remember which) That might be way to tell.

Yes, late production 2011s had cold weather package which included steering wheel, seat, and traction battery heaters. Therefore, a 2011 that has factory original steering wheel and seat heaters should have the traction battery heater. Earlier production 2011s do not have the heaters.
 
Lothsahn said:
cwerdna said:
There also can be fitment problems with '13+ packs into an '11. See replies by Aaron (a well-known Leaf tech in the PNW) at https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattlenissanleaf/permalink/2152761104755315/?comment_id=2152789724752453&reply_comment_id=2152818378082921. He has some replies there.

This.

I've spoken with Cor directly and he has confirmed that in addition to needing the plug adapter to go from 13+ to 11/12, there are also physical fitment problems with the battery cover (the plastic that goes over the battery under the car). The battery cover was changed slightly, so if you intend to do a pack/pack replacement, you should also get the cover. Additionally, the older VCM (11/12) may have compatibility issues with the newer battery packs, according to EVSEnhanced.

The only guaranteed to work options are:
1) Open both packs and replace all of the cells from a newer pack into the original 11/12 pack, keeping the BMS and wiring harnesses from 11/12. This only works if the pack is 24kWh. You cannot use 30/40 kWh cells. OR
2) Get a pack for the same model year and battery heater combination. Use EVSEnhanced's tool to re-pair the battery pack to the car. OR
3) Buy a replacement pack from Nissan. They will ensure that the pack is compatible with your car and comes with the wiring harness adapter.

If you go with option 3, it's very expensive, but it will NOT come with 2011 cells. All new packs purchased from Nissan use the latest battery chemistry and carry the standard 8 year battery warranty (and 5 year capacity warranty).
Excellent information!!!! Thanks.
 
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