berclese
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:44 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Aug 2016
Leaf Number: 310756

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:42 pm

berclese wrote:
berclese wrote:
samrovner wrote:
You and I are in the same boat, and I was hoping you were going to have better news today. I'm in Phoenix too, and this is my second LEAF. My 2013 SV didn't degrade like this at all. I agree with you about the car becoming worthless, and can't imagine what the range will be like when I finally lose my 4th bar. I read an article last night about contacting Nissan's Customer Support to start documenting this early, just to avoid headaches when it finally does qualify for replacement. I plan on calling them later today or tomorrow. Have you reached out to them yet?


I am under the suspicion that Nissan may have moved the SOH/capacity bar relationship for the 30 kWh battery. My car will likely drop it's second bar very soon. Have you taken your car in for the yearly battery check? That may help you in the long run (no pun intended). I have not contacted customer service. Please let us know how that goes.


UPDATE: I lost the second bar today. 237 GIDs AHr= 51.85 SOH= 65% HX= 65.88% 5899 miles.


UPDATE 2: I lost the 4th bar today at 7577 miles. GOM is still reporting range at 75 miles, but my actual range has been much lower. Off for a new battery on Monday. I can't wait to turn this leased vehicle in. Nissan really should consider pulling the Leaf from the Southwest.
2016 SV - 30kWh battery

inphoenix
Posts: 283
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2015 8:54 am
Delivery Date: 30 Sep 2015
Location: Phoenix! AZ

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:48 pm

berclese wrote:
berclese wrote:
berclese wrote:
I am under the suspicion that Nissan may have moved the SOH/capacity bar relationship for the 30 kWh battery. My car will likely drop it's second bar very soon. Have you taken your car in for the yearly battery check? That may help you in the long run (no pun intended). I have not contacted customer service. Please let us know how that goes.


UPDATE: I lost the second bar today. 237 GIDs AHr= 51.85 SOH= 65% HX= 65.88% 5899 miles.


UPDATE 2: I lost the 4th bar today at 7577 miles. GOM is still reporting range at 75 miles, but my actual range has been much lower. Off for a new battery on Monday. I can't wait to turn this leased vehicle in. Nissan really should consider pulling the Leaf from the Southwest.


Four bars at 7577 miles!! That's crazy. This new battery does suck big time. I am so glad that I have just a two-year lease but at this rate, I believe I'll be getting a new battery in last few months of my lease.
2014 S/QC - dropped the first bar at 28K miles, second at 32.5K miles, Lease ended in April '17.
2015 Tesla MS
2017 S/QC - Lost two bars already (at 9,6K miles and 14K miles). Going back in April '19.
JuiceBox Pro 40A EVSE

cwerdna
Posts: 8210
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:59 pm

^^^
Wow, that's got to be a record low in terms of mileage at 4 bar loss.

Update to viewtopic.php?p=521576#p521576

Seems like not many updates have been happening to http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Real ... 3.75.25.29 and I don't see any 4 bar 2016 30 kWh losers there yet. (I'd do it if I find some free time...)

Here are links to the 30 kWh 4 bar losers I'm aware of, so far. Please chime if I'm missing any 30 kWh 4+ bar losers, made mistakes, double-counted someone, etc. I've included their initials or MNL user name to help avoid confusion or duplication.

1) bakermel1, Phoenix, AZ, Sep 2017:
viewtopic.php?p=506782#p506782
viewtopic.php?p=506819#p506819
2) SB, Phoenix, AZ, Sep 2017: viewtopic.php?p=506613#p506613
3) samrovner, Surprise, AZ, Nov 2017: viewtopic.php?p=510024#p510024
4) LG, Chandler, AZ, Nov 2017: viewtopic.php?p=512503#p512503
5) ST, Orlando, FL, Dec 2017: viewtopic.php?p=514452#p514452
6) dfwpev aka Ron, Dallas, TX, Dec 2017: viewtopic.php?p=514659#p514659
7) BB, Lake Buena Vista, FL, Dec 2017: viewtopic.php?p=514929#p514929
8) slflores91, Las Vegas, NV, Oct/Nov 2017: viewtopic.php?p=510772#p510772
9) CC, Highland, CA, Feb 2018: https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan. ... 694281530/ - says he has a '16 SV built 10/15, delivered 5/16
10) LTLFTcomposite's family member, Orlando, FL, 18.7K miles, Feb 2018: viewtopic.php?p=519527#p519527 and viewtopic.php?p=520718#p520718
11) Maggie, Port St Lucie, FL, Feb 2018: viewtopic.php?p=519524#p519524
12) iPlug, Rocklin, CA, Feb 2018: viewtopic.php?p=520197#p520197
13) BB, Celebration, FL,10K miles, Mar 2018: https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan. ... 594159173/
14) EVforRobert spotted, registered in Tustin, CA, 54K miles, unknown loss month: viewtopic.php?p=522691#p522691, likely viewtopic.php?p=522718#p522718 at https://www.carmax.com/car/15642756
15) berclese, Chandler (?), AZ, Apr 2018: viewtopic.php?p=524011#p524011

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

User avatar
LTLFTcomposite
Posts: 4541
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:06 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Dec 2011
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Central FL

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:14 am

I'm trying to picture six years from now when we're getting our fourth pack replacement. How many times can Nissan afford to replace these with the same faulty technology before it would be cheaper to just buy back the car?

I wasn't on the call but was told the person on the EV hotline gave the impression this pack replacement restarts the eight year clock. Pretty sure that's not right. Could be a little more call center training is needed there.

We're looking to get rid of this turkey but part of me wants to hold on to it just to see how this plays out. It would be a bummer to take a big loss on it only to have some "program" announced a month later.
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue
2016 SV-adjacent May 2016 lost 4th bar March 2018

SageBrush
Posts: 2791
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:27 am

I consider it highly unlikely that everyone in hot climates will see the same awful degradation, or even a large fraction. I don't mean to say that hot weather is not a problem -- it is. But the worse stories are that AND other things. My bet all along has been on poor quality control at the factory, and worse ever since Nissan sold. It's possible that the Chinese will improve things but that will take time and only occur if they plan to continue with the same tech.

Leave it to Nissan to take a bad situation and make it worse by dumping refurbs on the customers. Note: this has not happened yet, but I expect it.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

User avatar
LTLFTcomposite
Posts: 4541
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:06 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Dec 2011
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Central FL

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:58 am

SageBrush wrote:I consider it highly unlikely that everyone in hot climates will see the same awful degradation, or even a large fraction.

I wonder why we would think that. Recognizing that people who aren't experiencing issues are less likely to speak up than those who are, are there *any* reports from 30kwh owners in warm climates who haven't experienced substantial capacity loss?
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue
2016 SV-adjacent May 2016 lost 4th bar March 2018

SageBrush
Posts: 2791
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:53 am

LTLFTcomposite wrote:
SageBrush wrote:I consider it highly unlikely that everyone in hot climates will see the same awful degradation, or even a large fraction.

I wonder why we would think that. Recognizing that people who aren't experiencing issues are less likely to speak up than those who are, are there *any* reports from 30kwh owners in warm climates who haven't experienced substantial capacity loss?


"substantial" degradation is the LEAF battery in a nutshell; I was talking about 4 bar loss in under two years.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

User avatar
LTLFTcomposite
Posts: 4541
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:06 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Dec 2011
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Central FL

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:09 am

Are there any reports of 30kwh packs in warm climates that have not lost four bars, or on their way to, in two years?
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue
2016 SV-adjacent May 2016 lost 4th bar March 2018

WetEV
Posts: 2320
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:34 am

LTLFTcomposite wrote:I'm trying to picture six years from now when we're getting our fourth pack replacement. How many times can Nissan afford to replace these with the same faulty technology before it would be cheaper to just buy back the car?


One might hope that they improve(d) the 30kWh pack life to match the Lizard 24kWh pack life.


LTLFTcomposite wrote:but part of me wants to hold on to it just to see how this plays out. It would be a bummer to take a big loss on it only to have some "program" announced a month later.


It would be a bummer to replace the pack, sell the car, and find out 6 years from now that the replacement pack is still doing well.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

goldbrick
Posts: 224
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Colorado front range

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:33 pm

I sticking with my 2017 also..

First, I like it and don't want to buy another EV at the moment and secondly, I think if the packs degrade as rapidlly as it looks like they might, Nissan will have to do something about it. I suppose it's possible they can find enough cells to build refurb packs for all the 30kWh failures but I'd assume it will take cells from a 30kWh pack to make another 30kWh pack. And if a large percentage of them fail, just selling refurb packs might not cover the demand. I'd be slightly bummed driving around with 65% capacity waiting for the 4th bar to drop but the prospect of that isn't enough to make me want to sell the car. My biggest concern is the resale value will plummet if/when it comes common knowledge that the 2016/2017 Leaf has 'issues'. Still, since I'm planning to keep the car for a long time, that isn't a deal-breaker either.

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