2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

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Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
Anyone on the list have their replacement long enough to make an evaluation or do we have to wait till end of this Summer?

Would it be wishful thinking to hope that the replacements are derated 40kwh packs?
Wouldn't that require BMS programming by Nissan ?

Nissan has a long history of ignoring the LEAF between generations so it strikes me as a stretch to think they are going to put programming resources into a fraction of the cars on the road that need replacement. They just want to reach end of warranty, and not a day longer or a penny more.
 
SageBrush said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
Anyone on the list have their replacement long enough to make an evaluation or do we have to wait till end of this Summer?

Would it be wishful thinking to hope that the replacements are derated 40kwh packs?
Wouldn't that require BMS programming by Nissan ?

Nissan has a long history of ignoring the LEAF between generations so it strikes me as a stretch to think they are going to put programming resources into a fraction of the cars on the road that need replacement. They just want to reach end of warranty, and not a day longer or a penny more.

For the 2013-2015 I'd agree, but with how poorly the 30kwh packs are doing, it's potentially significantly more than "just a fraction", especially with some of them potentially needing multiple replacements during the warranty period.
 
40 kwh packs in a 2016-2017 is not going to happen so don't waste time speculating on it. What WILL happen is 2018 tech will be part of the pack replacement... eventually :)
 
I'd prefer they just buy the vehicle back or swap it out even for a Sentra rather than replacing the pack four times over the next six years, but that isn't happening either. I guess they have the capacity to produce replacements of the existing flawed cells far into the future. They've probably also done the math on it and know the percentages on vehicles in warm climates, how many will get totaled, fail for some other reason that isn't economically feasible to repair (boy is that a wild card they can control) etc etc etc and it leaves them with a very manageable number for a big company.
 
Went into dealer today to have the diagnostic done to verify the 8 bars on my 2016 30kWh battery. After test was done, apparently whoever got the diagnostics at Nissan said they wanted the service dept to perform more tests that required me to leave the car with the dealer for 2 days while they drove it around and then ran the diagnostic test again. Apparently this would be to confirm that the battery status is truly what it reported and not due to something else? Service Dept and helpful man at Nissan Customer Service said they had never heard of this being required when the battery is clearly showing 8 bars. Not too sure what this means, but it seems clear that I can't proceed with ordering the new battery until this extra testing is done. Figured I would go along with this for now, and see if I have to jump through more hoops for the warranty to be honored once this additional diagnostic is done. Seems weird to me --- what other readings are they going to look at that would determine I would NOT be covered under the warranty? All my charging practices and usage were marked as excellent for prolonging the battery...so???? I thought 8 bars was ALL that was needed to qualify for the warranty.
 
Maggie said:
Went into dealer today to have the diagnostic done to verify the 8 bars on my 2016 30kWh battery. After test was done, apparently whoever got the diagnostics at Nissan said they wanted the service dept to perform more tests that required me to leave the car with the dealer for 2 days while they drove it around and then ran the diagnostic test again. Apparently this would be to confirm that the battery status is truly what it reported and not due to something else? Service Dept and helpful man at Nissan Customer Service said they had never heard of this being required when the battery is clearly showing 8 bars. Not too sure what this means, but it seems clear that I can't proceed with ordering the new battery until this extra testing is done. Figured I would go along with this for now, and see if I have to jump through more hoops for the warranty to be honored once this additional diagnostic is done. Seems weird to me --- what other readings are they going to look at that would determine I would NOT be covered under the warranty? All my charging practices and usage were marked as excellent for prolonging the battery...so???? I thought 8 bars was ALL that was needed to qualify for the warranty.
They find it hard to believe the battery is that bad and are hoping that the test will magically improve tomorrow.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
I'd prefer they just buy the vehicle back or swap it out even for a Sentra rather than replacing the pack four times over the next six years, but that isn't happening either..
This is one of my major peeves with the battery replacement story: for much of the warranty period the car is operating at less than expected range.

The cars are legal lemons.
 
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
For the 2013-2015 I'd agree, but with how poorly the 30kwh packs are doing, it's potentially significantly more than "just a fraction", especially with some of them potentially needing multiple replacements during the warranty period.
So far it appears once again to be a big problem mostly for the owners in hot weather climates. And the car was only made for ~ two years.

This sounds like a few thousand cars to me. Of the choices it can make, I expect Nissan to use 30 kWh packs they have stored somewhere that will perform even worse than the originals since they have sat on a shelf until use. I estimate the chance of Nissan giving away larger packs than required by warranty for free as replacements as right about zero. And remember, the current 40 kWh pack is itself going to be a short lived product ... just long enough to come to terms with LG.
 
Maggie said:
Went into dealer today to have the diagnostic done to verify the 8 bars on my 2016 30kWh battery. After test was done, apparently whoever got the diagnostics at Nissan said they wanted the service dept to perform more tests that required me to leave the car with the dealer for 2 days while they drove it around and then ran the diagnostic test again. Apparently this would be to confirm that the battery status is truly what it reported and not due to something else? Service Dept and helpful man at Nissan Customer Service said they had never heard of this being required when the battery is clearly showing 8 bars. Not too sure what this means, but it seems clear that I can't proceed with ordering the new battery until this extra testing is done. Figured I would go along with this for now, and see if I have to jump through more hoops for the warranty to be honored once this additional diagnostic is done. Seems weird to me --- what other readings are they going to look at that would determine I would NOT be covered under the warranty? All my charging practices and usage were marked as excellent for prolonging the battery...so???? I thought 8 bars was ALL that was needed to qualify for the warranty.
Owners here in New Zealand are also seeing the earlier stages of degradation in 2016 cars based on Leaf Spy and loss of first bar while the 24kWh cars are reporting better. There is a question of whether the loss of range is equating to the loss of SoH and posts here with lots of bars loss tend to show significant loss of range. Has anyone done range loss comparisons as the bars are going? Your warranty is still based on bars and with 4 bars loss the range reduction does seem high.
 
I've got a '17 S with 17k miles on it, no bars lost yet.

Here's my plan, though - I want to get it to 99,990 miles as soon as possible, then leave it charged in the sun for a year or so. Boom, new 100k mile battery.
 
eatsleafsandshoots said:
I've got a '17 S with 17k miles on it, no bars lost yet.

Here's my plan, though - I want to get it to 99,990 miles as soon as possible, then leave it charged in the sun for a year or so. Boom, new 100k mile battery.

You're in Denver, you might be unlucky and end up up with a 61% SOH battery and only 3 bars lost still before the warranty expires! :D
 
Maggie said:
Went into dealer today to have the diagnostic done to verify the 8 bars on my 2016 30kWh battery. After test was done, apparently whoever got the diagnostics at Nissan said they wanted the service dept to perform more tests that required me to leave the car with the dealer for 2 days while they drove it around and then ran the diagnostic test again. Apparently this would be to confirm that the battery status is truly what it reported and not due to something else? Service Dept and helpful man at Nissan Customer Service said they had never heard of this being required when the battery is clearly showing 8 bars. Not too sure what this means, but it seems clear that I can't proceed with ordering the new battery until this extra testing is done. Figured I would go along with this for now, and see if I have to jump through more hoops for the warranty to be honored once this additional diagnostic is done. Seems weird to me --- what other readings are they going to look at that would determine I would NOT be covered under the warranty? All my charging practices and usage were marked as excellent for prolonging the battery...so???? I thought 8 bars was ALL that was needed to qualify for the warranty.
I suspect Nissan is having the dealership run special diagnostic software on your car because this is one of the first warranty claims with the 30-kWh battery. Hopefully they are compensating you for loaning them your vehicle while they play with it.
 
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
eatsleafsandshoots said:
I've got a '17 S with 17k miles on it, no bars lost yet.

Here's my plan, though - I want to get it to 99,990 miles as soon as possible, then leave it charged in the sun for a year or so. Boom, new 100k mile battery.

You're in Denver, you might be unlucky and end up up with a 61% SOH battery and only 3 bars lost still before the warranty expires! :D
Do Nissan dealers log the use of their CHADEMOs? If not, if you wanted to abuse your battery, Denver gets pretty warm in the summer. Drive at 85 MPH up I-70 to Genesee Park (a steep climb) on a summer afternoon, zip back down to C-470, repeat until empty, then CHADEMO at Empire Nissan. You could pull this off at least twice in a day. That oughta heat the pack to a dull red glow.

Not that I'm endorsing this behavior, but the potential is there if someone thinks they need to do it.
 
BuckMkII said:
Do Nissan dealers log the use of their CHADEMOs? If not, if you wanted to abuse your battery, Denver gets pretty warm in the summer. Drive at 85 MPH up I-70 to Genesee Park (a steep climb) on a summer afternoon, zip back down to C-470, repeat until empty, then CHADEMO at Empire Nissan. You could pull this off at least twice in a day. That oughta heat the pack to a dull red glow.

Not that I'm endorsing this behavior, but the potential is there if someone thinks they need to do it.
Not a good idea to get too hot as Nissan can see what you have done. Look at battery temperature in table at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=182552#p182552
 
dwl said:
BuckMkII said:
Do Nissan dealers log the use of their CHADEMOs? If not, if you wanted to abuse your battery, Denver gets pretty warm in the summer. Drive at 85 MPH up I-70 to Genesee Park (a steep climb) on a summer afternoon, zip back down to C-470, repeat until empty, then CHADEMO at Empire Nissan. You could pull this off at least twice in a day. That oughta heat the pack to a dull red glow.

Not that I'm endorsing this behavior, but the potential is there if someone thinks they need to do it.
Not a good idea to get too hot as Nissan can see what you have done. Look at battery temperature in table at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=182552#p182552

Welps, there goes the "park it fully charged under the sun" idea. Thanks for sharing that topic! Never knew that they had such info.
 
As to range loss: When I lost a bar in Nov, I started logging range estimated vs actual on each charge. My SOC was about 81%. I found that if I multiplied the EPA rated range of 107mi (which was what I got when the car was new) times the 81%, that was pretty close to what I would get.

Another observation was that when the car was new, the GOM was VERY accurate and consistent. After the loss of a bar, it was overly optimistic and unreliable. It was estimating a range more like 1/12 of the 107 mi EPA range when new.

Without LeafSpy, and this forum, I would have assumed one bar would equate to about 8.5% of capacity. As discussed in this thread, the first bar doesn't drop until more like a 15% loss. So the bar system is misleading at best.

I've recently turned in my '16 30kWh car at the end of the 2 year lease. I'd have been willing to buy it or extend the lease if they would have renegotiated the terms. The lease company said they don't extend leases except for 3 months while you get a new car. And the end of lease inspector said Nissan doesn't negotiate end of lease buy out price, even it they have to sell if for way less after they get it back.
 
Nissan dealers can negotiate the price, to see how much of a given month's incentive they can keep for themselves. NMAC no longer offers the incentives to owners, only to the dealers.
 
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