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edatoakrun said:
EVDRIVER said:
edatoakrun said:
That the model 3 is so poorly designed, it's funny.

Sorry you didn't get the joke.

No I don't get it, a 12V battery dies so what?...

If you're lucky enough to have it happen to your 3 in your garage, this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMQsOC8EqIY

I can think of lots of worse places to find your 3 has locked you out, locked your 3 out of tow mode, and (if when plugged in) locked you to a charge cable, due to any 12 volt system failure.

As discussed on this thread, lots of places where it won't be funny at all...

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/tesla-model-3-down-wont-power-up-and-is-inaccessible.108412/

Poor design, to make vehicle access dependent on the 12 volt system, especially so when considering TSLA's history of recurring 12 V system failures.
I know none of us have any idea at all what percentage of model 3s are having problems, but I have seen an awful lot of things like this. This is the first one of this type, but I've seen reports of cracked glass, lots of key cards that won't work, center screens that won't work, a battery that needed to be replaced, suspension problems, etc. just really everything I've seen reports of issues with.

Now we've all harped on Nissan for its Leaf battery situation but correct me if I'm wrong when the 2011 Leaf came out, major issues were few and far between. It seems to me a sign of tesla's immaturity as a company, and for whatever reason their buyers give them incredible leeway in first gen quality issues.

That's a $42k car (assuming he got federal credit) that won't even turn on or let him in the car.
 
EatsShootsandLeafs said:
Now we've all harped on Nissan for its Leaf battery situation but correct me if I'm wrong when the 2011 Leaf came out, major issues were few and far between. It seems to me a sign of tesla's immaturity as a company, and for whatever reason their buyers give them incredible leeway in first gen quality issues.

I think if you were to look back in the archives of the mynissanleaf forum in the 2012 timeframe and just go in and pick out the posts that had some kind of "problem" involved, you'd probably come to the same kind of conclusion about the LEAF as you are coming to with the Model 3, that it's got a ton of issues and everyone must be miserable with their vehicles. When the reality is that the problems aren't all that common and you have the normal bias of the 99% of the people that have had no issues with the car aren't starting a new thread to say so.

Having said that, there are certain cases of problems with the Model 3 that are probably more serious than those present in the early LEAF due to lack of redundant/backup systems or use of new and unproven technology that is not quite ready for prime time yet. So even though the number of incidents might be very low, they are very severe in their nature.
 
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This must be a software bug or some other issue, to kill the battery on a 3 would require draining the pack down which on that car is difficult without user error. You can use a 9V battery to pop the trunk if it were dead. The car was also left for two weeks with a 120V car plugged in so who knows what happened but I would bet that there are more cases of LEAFs that have killed their 12V than there will be on this car comparatively by a huge margin. Those citing the old design also don't know that there is now a small dc/dc in the pack on newer models. Anyone want to guess how many LEAFs were pulled and not sent out on the original production runs because of defects? Clearly Tesla has pressure to push out all cars and will remedy any issues, in the scheme of things so few cars have been made under extreme pressure that I'm surprised there are not bigger issues.

Any updates on the motor that "blew up". :roll:
 
EatsShootsandLeafs said:
...I know none of us have any idea at all what percentage of model 3s are having problems, but I have seen an awful lot of things like this. This is the first one of this type, but I've seen reports of cracked glass, lots of key cards that won't work, center screens that won't work, a battery that needed to be replaced, suspension problems, etc. just really everything I've seen reports of issues with.

Now we've all harped on Nissan for its Leaf battery situation but correct me if I'm wrong when the 2011 Leaf came out, major issues were few and far between. It seems to me a sign of tesla's immaturity as a company, and for whatever reason their buyers give them incredible leeway in first gen quality issues.

That's a $42k car (assuming he got federal credit) that won't even turn on or let him in the car.

Have you seen my review of our Model 3 we picked up Monday?
Or my friend Dan’s review after he picked up his in December?

Probably not, as neither of us have made one.
For me, the delivery process was wonderful. No issues with the car, phone was set up smoothly and worked great. No cracks in windows, or other issues.

But people like me are less likely to post. People with complaints are much more likely to post.

Now, your statement that neither of us knows the rate of these issues is absolutely true. And I would be willing to bet that Tesla, as a much younger manufacturer, has a higher rate of issues than Nissan does with the Leaf.
But in my opinion, companies much more mature than, and much larger than Tesla have had much worse design issues.
 
OrientExpress said:
EVDRIVER said:
Zythryn said:
But in my opinion, companies much more mature than, and much larger than Tesla have had much worse design issues.

And continue to today.

Your opinion could use a reality check.

Check out Ford's Production Hell

Weird, the same company fumbled around to deliver their flagship product two years late.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markewing/2017/08/30/ford-fumbles-gt-deliveries-more-delays/#28b71485341c

I hear that after waiting for two years after plunking down massive deposits that customers are beginning to see their cars.
 
http://www.autonews.com/article/20141027/RETAIL03/310279956/un-honda-like-problems-plague-new-plant-in-mexico

Remember when the Honda Fit and HRV were delayed and suffered from poor quality when Honda struggled to get a factory up and running? I hear they’ve been building cars a while.
 
mtndrew1 said:
Weird, the same company fumbled around to deliver their flagship product two years late.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markewing/2017/08/30/ford-fumbles-gt-deliveries-more-delays/#28b71485341c

I hear that after waiting for two years after plunking down massive deposits that customers are beginning to see their cars.
Sorry, but the F-Series pickup built on the production line featured in the Daily Kanban article is Ford's "flagship product", not the Ford GT.

The F-Series is also a much better product to compare to the Model S since both products have similar pricing and are intended to be manufactured in very high quantities.
 
RegGuheert said:
mtndrew1 said:
Weird, the same company fumbled around to deliver their flagship product two years late.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markewing/2017/08/30/ford-fumbles-gt-deliveries-more-delays/#28b71485341c

I hear that after waiting for two years after plunking down massive deposits that customers are beginning to see their cars.
Sorry, but the F-Series pickup built on the production line featured in the Daily Kanban article is Ford's "flagship product", not the Ford GT.

The F-Series is also a much better product to compare to the Model S since both products have similar pricing and are intended to be manufactured in very high quantities.

The point being that even established automakers with a century of design and manufacturing experience struggle with launching an ambitious product.
 
Mazda’s been making cars a while. They’re four years late on their promised SKYACTIV-D launch.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2017/09/still-dont-know-mazda-cx-5-diesel-will-arrive-america/
 
FCA has a collective 175 years or so of automaking experience. Remember how the Alfa Romeo Giulia and Stelvio were 18 months late?

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/news/a28381/alfa-romeo-delayed-the-giulia-because-it-was-technically-immature/

Edit: Same company delivered the Pacifica Plug-in more than six months later than promised and almost immediately had to recall all of them due to a dangerous powertrain defect.

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/chrysler/2017/04/06/pacific-hybrid-shipment-date/100118378/
 
mtndrew1 said:
FCA has a collective 175 years or so of automaking experience. Remember how the Alfa Romeo Giulia and Stelvio were 18 months late?

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/news/a28381/alfa-romeo-delayed-the-giulia-because-it-was-technically-immature/

Edit: Same company delivered the Pacifica Plug-in more than six months later than promised and almost immediately had to recall all of them due to a dangerous powertrain defect.

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/chrysler/2017/04/06/pacific-hybrid-shipment-date/100118378/
Well, yeah but it's Fiat Chrysler you're talking about, i.e. one step up from Yugo. :lol:
 
GRA said:
mtndrew1 said:
FCA has a collective 175 years or so of automaking experience. Remember how the Alfa Romeo Giulia and Stelvio were 18 months late?

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/news/a28381/alfa-romeo-delayed-the-giulia-because-it-was-technically-immature/

Edit: Same company delivered the Pacifica Plug-in more than six months later than promised and almost immediately had to recall all of them due to a dangerous powertrain defect.

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/chrysler/2017/04/06/pacific-hybrid-shipment-date/100118378/
Well, yeah but it's Fiat Chrysler you're talking about, i.e. one step up from Yugo. :lol:

And Mazda. And Honda.

I’ve worked for major automakers and no matter how smoothly a launch appears to the customer it’s an absolute train wreck sh*tshow on the inside.

Building cars is hard, even if you’ve been doing it a long time. Toyota often does best at this but a large part of that is recycling platforms for ages. The 2018 Camry is the first brand new platform for the car since 2003 if memory serves, for example.
 
OrientExpress said:
EVDRIVER said:
Zythryn said:
But in my opinion, companies much more mature than, and much larger than Tesla have had much worse design issues.

And continue to today.

Your opinion could use a reality check.

Check out Ford's Production Hell

Not sure why you say that.
I did not say Ford wasn't much more established with a much larger production capacity. No question there.
What I referred to was design issues leading to:

CO poisoning of drivers: http://www.chicagotribune.com/classified/automotive/sc-auto-tips-0201-ford-explorer-dizziness-20180130-story.html

Or GM's killer ignition switch: http://money.cnn.com/infographic/pf/autos/gm-recall-timeline/index.html

And of course, we are well aware here of the early Leaf battery fiasco.

These are examples of, IMO, far worse design issues by far more mature and larger car companies.
 
mtndrew1 said:
Mazda’s been making cars a while. They’re four years late on their promised SKYACTIV-D launch.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2017/09/still-dont-know-mazda-cx-5-diesel-will-arrive-america/
False equivalence because, really, who cares about that motor. Does it matter to Mazda all that much? Does it matter to Ford's bottom line if their GT is a year late, two years late, if they just cancel it?

Be honest: do you think that the Ford GT is as important to Ford as the MOdel 3 is to Tesla?

Don't answer that question, it was rhetorical.

I liked the article about ford manufacturing. I see it parroted that tesla is going to revolutionize auto manufacture and not one scintilla of proof has ever been offered they are doing anything other automakers are not doing or are incapable of.
 
EatsShootsandLeafs said:
mtndrew1 said:
Mazda’s been making cars a while. They’re four years late on their promised SKYACTIV-D launch.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2017/09/still-dont-know-mazda-cx-5-diesel-will-arrive-america/
False equivalence because, really, who cares about that motor. Does it matter to Mazda all that much? Does it matter to Ford's bottom line if their GT is a year late, two years late, if they just cancel it?

Be honest: do you think that the Ford GT is as important to Ford as the MOdel 3 is to Tesla?

Don't answer that question, it was rhetorical.

I liked the article about ford manufacturing. I see it parroted that tesla is going to revolutionize auto manufacture and not one scintilla of proof has ever been offered they are doing anything other automakers are not doing or are incapable of.

There occurs occasionally a sense of rationality being expressed in this thread!

Sorry for the many "taken-down-the-path" when making a reservation based on the assumption of a deliverable $35K M3
almost two years ago. It's truly a sad and unfortunate outcome for many.
 
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