2013 Leaf bar loss.

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LeftieBiker said:
I had just taken the leaf on its first trip to disneyland and back.

Was it hot at Disneyland?

I don't recall, since we have some mild spring-like June's occasionally. Probably not, since the worst summer heat is between August and October.

Edit: just remembered that we had a parking pass that year, so I parked in the "goofy" parking garage.
 
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
As I wasn't expecting to lose SOH that time, I measured it afterwards and saw a 2% overnight drop in SOH. After a few days of rebalancing the pack, I got 1% back, but not the full 2%. I never left the car parked overnight below 20% ever again.

Do you have updated LEAF Spy stats? Your pack is not following the curve of others in your build time frame AND you live in a pretty warm area

Unfortunately no, that was my 2013 leaf S (built in Sept and bought in Oct 2013), which I turned in last year. That 2% drop happened in summer 2014. I had just taken the leaf on its first trip to disneyland and back. It was returned with ~79% battery health @ 45,000 miles, so it would've lost its fourth bar ~10,000 miles outside the warranty period.

My 2016 leaf S (current stats in the signature) is experiencing better degradation rate (~94% battery health @ 15,000 miles).

the 2016 is what I was referring to
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
Do you have updated LEAF Spy stats? Your pack is not following the curve of others in your build time frame AND you live in a pretty warm area

Unfortunately no, that was my 2013 leaf S (built in Sept and bought in Oct 2013), which I turned in last year. That 2% drop happened in summer 2014. I had just taken the leaf on its first trip to disneyland and back. It was returned with ~79% battery health @ 45,000 miles, so it would've lost its fourth bar ~10,000 miles outside the warranty period.

My 2016 leaf S (current stats in the signature) is experiencing better degradation rate (~94% battery health @ 15,000 miles).

the 2016 is what I was referring to

After that SOH incident, I've never left either car parked at under 20% SOC ever again. I've driven my 2016 to VLBW, but have always charged it back up to at least 25% (even at peak TOU rates of $0.35/kWh), before re-enabling the charge timer.

So I haven't seen a 2% overnight SOH drop with my 2016 leaf.

Edit: just realized you're probably referring to my signature! Will update it soon.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
sitting at low SOC will degrade the pack but people here won't believe you unless you can post a study (as if they were some sort of unassailable truth... :lol: )
As if your random halfway anecdotal thoughts are any better? Such as "80*" being a magic temperature where capacity loss due to "heat" occurs. In reality, it's all relative and the rate of capacity loss over time varies approximately with Arrhenius' equation - a 10C rise in temperature will double the rate of capacity loss. Storage at a low SOC is not the same as cycling the pack across a wide SOC range. Cycling a pack across a wider range of capacity will accelerate the rate of capacity loss.

But you have to remember that cycling tests of batteries are highly accelerated and don't accurately represent conditions in real life where there is a lot of time spent between each cycle. Also, it's really hard to find any controlled data where the same depth of discharge is performed at different average SOCs. I would bet that cycling a pack between 10-50% SOC would be very different than 50-90%, for example.

Yes, if you drain the pack to turtle and let it sit for months, you may find a way to accelerate capacity loss. But in reality, the BMS disables the pack around 3.0V on the lowest cell-pair, which while being pretty low, is not low enough to do any real damage to the cells once there in short term storage. No, I would not recommend leaving the pack with cells at that voltage for for any extended period of time, but for a couple days, no big deal.

SeasonsAfter said:
My nissan leaf is close to the warranty replacement date but I don't think I can get there with my leaf spy stats. Any suggestions? I have four months before the warranty expires.

AHr 47.47

I live in San Diego so it doesn't get too cold in the winter and run the hell out of it for the warranty but am afraid to kill the battery after the warranty period. I tried to call nissan's leaf line and they indicate you are **** out of luck if you don't get that 4th bar lost. No assistance on battery from my calls.
In October 2015 I was around 47.5 AHr with 9 bars showing. I didn't drop to 8 bars for about 10 months, August 2016 with 43.3 AHr. Take that with a grain of salt since I have a 2011, but the 2013 appears to be pretty similar. So unfortunately, I think you're out of luck getting your car to drop that last capacity bar in 4 months.

How long ago did you drop to 9 capacity bars?
 
I know, with my numbers I don't think I will be able to get that last bar to drop in the four months time the warranty is still intact. San Diego has been hot recently so I am hoping to make use of the heat as best as possible. Too bad I couldn't get the battery pack with full sun the entire day...ha

My 9th bar loss happened awhile back but I didn't record this date. I think it happened last year so maybe I am in luck? ha

I took the leaf into the dealership over the weekend to get the battery check done. Wow, was that a waste of money. $67 to tell me my SOC is 71%...wow, I could have told you that...

Didn't get much from the Nissan folks other than 5 stars on battery. One Nissan guy (intake) said some customers can get 10% of a new battery at some point. When I pressed him on how this works, he didn't explain further. Basically he told me to drive it hard and hopefully the bar will drop.

Looking for anyone with any suggestions at this point. Being friendly with Nissan doesn't get you much. I figure they want that warranty to expire on you so they don't have to buy a new pack.

My current numbers from yesterday's full charge.

33k on ODO
1/13 manufacture date
in service date 2/21/2013
AHr- 46.94
SOH 71%
HX 65.09%
204 GIDs max
72.6% GIDs
SOC 97%
 
SeasonsAfter said:
I know, with my numbers I don't think I will be able to get that last bar to drop in the four months time the warranty is still intact. San Diego has been hot recently so I am hoping to make use of the heat as best as possible. Too bad I couldn't get the battery pack with full sun the entire day...ha

My 9th bar loss happened awhile back but I didn't record this date. I think it happened last year so maybe I am in luck? ha

I took the leaf into the dealership over the weekend to get the battery check done. Wow, was that a waste of money. $67 to tell me my SOC is 71%...wow, I could have told you that...

Didn't get much from the Nissan folks other than 5 stars on battery. One Nissan guy (intake) said some customers can get 10% of a new battery at some point. When I pressed him on how this works, he didn't explain further. Basically he told me to drive it hard and hopefully the bar will drop.

Looking for anyone with any suggestions at this point. Being friendly with Nissan doesn't get you much. I figure they want that warranty to expire on you so they don't have to buy a new pack.

My current numbers from yesterday's full charge.

33k on ODO
1/13 manufacture date
in service date 2/21/2013
AHr- 46.94
SOH 71%
HX 65.09%
204 GIDs max
72.6% GIDs
SOC 97%

That actually looks promising!

Now you didn't hear this from me, but IF you have a full day available, locate a chademo station near a mall/desired-destination, charge to 100% the night before, wait until 10am, and drive until you reach the chademo station with 30% charge, then charge to 100% and leave it parked under the sun for the afternoon (preferably over black asphalt). Would love to see your leafspy stats in the morning and after the chademo charge! Remember, you didn't hear from anyone, it just happened that your day went that way!
 
My 2013 doesn't have a quick charging outlet. I am only charging level 2 at my home so try to keep the car fully charged with it plugged in.

I try to fully charge the leaf and then take a long trip (A/C full blast, heater seats on High, steering wheel heat on) to turtle mode.

Mirrors on the ground of the car to get some extra sun pointing directly to the battery pack?

Still with these numbers, I think the only way I can get a replacement is if I take it to AZ or Palm Springs to bask in the sun as much as possible. Someone in AZ or Palm Springs that can help me out on my project? ha
 
SeasonsAfter said:
My 2013 doesn't have a quick charging outlet. I am only charging level 2 at my home so try to keep the car fully charged with it plugged in.

I try to fully charge the leaf and then take a long trip (A/C full blast, heater seats on High, steering wheel heat on) to turtle mode.

Mirrors on the ground of the car to get some extra sun pointing directly to the battery pack?

Still with these numbers, I think the only way I can get a replacement is if I take it to AZ or Palm Springs to bask in the sun as much as possible. Someone in AZ or Palm Springs that can help me out on my project? ha

DOH!!

Although, that mirrors-on-the-ground idea's a pretty good one. Just need ALOT of mirrors - think Ivanpah!
 
What is the dependence of the "drop-out" of the rods of the battery capacity from its SOH? For example, at which SOH will the 12th stick of battery capacity go off? The 11th ... the 10th, and so on. Can eat which dependency table?
 
If I recall properly (this is well documented on the site somewhere), the first bar drops at 85% SOH, 15% loss, and the other bars each drop with an additional 6.25% loss. So, you have to get below about 66% SOH before you lose the 9th bar and get a new battery.
 
keydiver said:
If I recall properly (this is well documented on the site somewhere), the first bar drops at 85% SOH, 15% loss, and the other bars each drop with an additional 6.25% loss. So, you have to get below about 66% SOH before you lose the 9th bar and get a new battery.
No.

There was this table from the '11 service manual: http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Battery#Battery_Capacity_Behavior. It is NOT in the '12 nor '13 service manual.

Nissan has AFAIK never acknowledged nor released any public documentation on any of the values that Leaf Spy renders. I've commented about this before at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=510059#p510059.
 
My numbers in the signature line. 19 days left on my warranty for a replacement. No 9th bar drop yet but hoping this San Diego sun does the trick! Keep your fingers crossed everyone!!

I am fortunate my leaf is black!
 
My 5 year battery warranty is up today. No 4th bar drop....too bad Nissan didn't extend their "goodwill" program to the 2013 models or later. I guess I will just need to live with the limited range. Good luck to all the other Leaf owners out there who decided to purchase instead of lease. Dwindling battery range will be a challenge but I can make it work.

Watch my fourth bar drop this month...
 
Nissan consumer affairs called me regarding the email I sent. Basically no help... The only suggestion the lady has was to go to a Nissan dealership and see what their financing department can offer for a new battery.

Spending $5k on a new battery for 30% more capacity seems a bit silly.

I will just hang onto the Leaf as it is. Limited range but charging at work and home will be fine for now.

Good luck to all you other Leafers out there. Doubtful any other owners will get assistance from Nissan going forward on their "goodwill program". Treating the 2011 and 2012 owners with respect and offering to pay for a new battery with 10%-20% out of pocket for early adopters was great for those who took the offer. 2013 owners don't receive anything other than a suggestion to get a new battery financed...

Thanks again Nissan for the dedication to your customers.

I am in line for a Sondors. I hope the Sondors enters into production and isn't in limbo like the Elio...

https://www.engadget.com/2018/02/05/sondors-three-wheeled-ev-test-drive/
 
Hey everyone, I lost my 9th bar back in Aug 31th, 2017 @ 29,157 miles and just wanted to post the stats.

2013 Leaf S
Manufacture Date: 3-2013
Service Date: 4-2013
My Location: Southern California

Stats for 8-31-2017 when 9th bar was lost (There was a heat wave at this time, highs of 100+ for a few days. Was getting about 45-49 miles on a full charge @ 4.5miles/kW):
41.03 AHr
62% SOH
56.05% Hx
979 L1/L2
Temp 96.6
Odo 29,157

Stats as of today 3-4-2018 (Currently at 7 bars, not sure when the 8th bar dropped, maybe late Feb. Currently gets 35-39 miles on a full charge @ 4.5miles/kW):
39.79 AHr
60.84SOH
52.90% Hx
1247 L1/L2
Temp 52.5
Odo 34,769

I didn't get the battery replaced yet but plan do so in about 2 weeks.
 
^^^
Good that you made it before capacity warranty expiration. The correct units for "4.5miles/kW" are miles/kWh. The instrumentation in the car uses the correct units.
 
Nissan starts exchange program in Japan. At 300,000 yen ($2,853), this might be a good deal for the older Nissan Leaf owners.

https://www.automotiveworld.com/news-releases/nissan-starts-exchange-program-nissan-leaf-batteries-japan/
 
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