Nissan finally gets it with new 240V portable EVSE

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wwhitney: The following manufacturer's data sheet lists allowable ampacities for NM-B 8/2 and NM-B 8/3 as 40a, not 50a, together with the statement "Type NM-B ampacity limitation shall be in accordance with the 60ºC conductor temperature rating, as specified in the NEC":

https://www.encorewire.com/wp-content/uploads/EncoreWire-NMB.pdf

Am I misunderstanding something? Thanks for all your valuable and informative posts here over the years, btw!
 
No, you're not missing anything, did something earlier in the thread give you a different impression?

NM cable cable is limited to the 60C ampacity for historical/political/robustness issues. Other wiring methods can typically use the 75C ampacity if used with 75C rated terminations. For #8 copper, the 60C ampacity is 40A, and the 75C ampacity is 50A.

Cheers, Wayne
 
wwhitney: Yes, your insistence that "The only part of a (properly installed) 40 amp circuit that isn't rated for 40 amps continuous is the circuit breaker itself.".

I did not want readers of this thread to get the mistaken impression that that the NEC currently supports your position that the very commonly used NM-B 8/x cable was "rated 40 amps continuous" when it is appears evident (from NEC article 334.80 "Nonmetallic-Sheathed Cable Types NM, NMC, and NMS/Ampacity" etc) that it does not.

Now, the reason for this (as is the case for many rules in the NEC) is not clear, certainly not to me. I usually assume that it is due to discovery from experimental data and/or experience data over time that there there is a substantial risk of fire and/or shock hazard to rule otherwise.
 
MikeD said:
I did not want readers of this thread to get the mistaken impression that that the NEC currently supports your position that the very commonly used NM-B 8/x cable was "rated 40 amps continuous" when it is appears evident (from NEC article 334.80 "Nonmetallic-Sheathed Cable Types NM, NMC, and NMS/Ampacity" etc) that it does not.
Ah, you're still missing the point. When a conductor has a 40 amp rating, that is a continuous rating. Again, it is only the circuit breaker whose rating is not continuous, and that is the reason everything gets upsized by a factor of 125%.

Cheers, Wayne
 
wwhitney: Yes, I forgot that the basic NEC definition of ampacity involves maximum CONTINUOUS current not just maximum current (more specifically "Ampacity: The current, in amperes, that a conductor can carry continuously under the conditions of use without exceeding its temperature rating."), so thank you for being patient in reminding me of that.

I read an explanation of some of the reasoning behind Article 210.10 (A)(1) (...the minimum branch-circuit conductor size...shall have an allowable ampacity not less than ...125 percent of the continuous load...), which readers of this thread might be interested as well, although I am not certain that it applies with a circuit load connected via a receptacle.

Briefly, "The manufacturer [of a connected electrical device] ... [may] count on a relatively cool conductor to function as a heat sink for heat generated within the device under these continuous operating conditions.".

This is a subtlety that I, for one, rarely think about. However, I am all for better understanding of reasons behind important safety rules.
 
I'm hoping some of the uber-knowledgeable people on this board can help me out with some advice/opinions. I recently purchased a 2018 Leaf SL which came with the portable 240v EVSE (along with the adapter to plug in to a regular 110v outlet). I am planning on having an "RV plug" (NEMA14-50) installed by a licensed electrician so that I can achieve Level 2 charging at home. I do not have a garage and my car is parked in my driveway. I am planning on having the plug mounted on one of the support posts of my side porch. My main question is: can the EVSE that came with the car safely be used outdoors? (I would also be installing the bracket that came with the EVSE which presumably supports it sufficiently).

Any help is much appreciated. Thanks!
 
xhaltsalute said:
I'm hoping some of the uber-knowledgeable people on this board can help me out with some advice/opinions. I recently purchased a 2018 Leaf SL which came with the portable 240v EVSE (along with the adapter to plug in to a regular 110v outlet). I am planning on having an "RV plug" (NEMA14-50) installed by a licensed electrician so that I can achieve Level 2 charging at home. I do not have a garage and my car is parked in my driveway. I am planning on having the plug mounted on one of the support posts of my side porch. My main question is: can the EVSE that came with the car safely be used outdoors? (I would also be installing the bracket that came with the EVSE which presumably supports it sufficiently).

Any help is much appreciated. Thanks!
Go check out an RV park for examples of outdoor plugs and the things people do with them without dying.
That said, do yourself a favor and buy a socket rated for outdoor use and think about a hood to keep it dry.

Better safe than sorry.
 
I don't have an answer to the question on the rating of the Nissan EVSE, but it is worth noting that a Tentative Interim Amendment was issued for the 2017 NEC that would require a GFCI breaker and an in-use weatherproof cover for the receptacle in your application. Even if your jurisdiction hasn't adopted the TIA, it would still be best practice.

Cheers, Wayne
 
Thanks for the responses. I understand outdoor plugs need to be GFCI and must be covered, per the National Electrical Code, which my local government enforces. My question was more about whether the EVSE (the entire unit that will be plugged into the outdoor RV plug, the cable, and the J-handle that goes into the car) is OK for outdoor use. There's a large "brick-like" portion (this would be supported by the included bracket) and I don't know if the "brick-like" portion needs to be protected from the elements or not. Probably a shield (or housing) of some sort would be advisable, but Nissan doesn't speak to this in the Owner's Manual. I suppose they think that we're all going to put that portable EVSE in the trunk each day...
 
xhaltsalute said:
I'm hoping some of the uber-knowledgeable people on this board can help me out with some advice/opinions. I recently purchased a 2018 Leaf SL which came with the portable 240v EVSE (along with the adapter to plug in to a regular 110v outlet). I am planning on having an "RV plug" (NEMA14-50) installed by a licensed electrician so that I can achieve Level 2 charging at home. I do not have a garage and my car is parked in my driveway. I am planning on having the plug mounted on one of the support posts of my side porch. My main question is: can the EVSE that came with the car safely be used outdoors? (I would also be installing the bracket that came with the EVSE which presumably supports it sufficiently).

Any help is much appreciated. Thanks!

I installed my portable charger on the side of my house. I used a weather proof box, it plugs right in with a lockable cover(so no one steals your charger) Also purchased nozzle holder which i attatched to the box. Also purchased a level 1 (120 volt) portable charger ($260) to keep in the car. Installed it myself as i am a licensed electrician. Purchased everything on Amazon.ca. I have a pic, not sure how to post it
 
electrical said:
I installed my portable charger on the side of my house. I used a weather proof box, it plugs right in with a lockable cover(so no one steals your charger) Also purchased nozzle holder which i attatched to the box. Also purchased a level 1 (120 volt) portable charger ($260) to keep in the car. Installed it myself as i am a licensed electrician. Purchased everything on Amazon.ca. I have a pic, not sure how to post it

Upload the image on imgur & then post the URL to the image
 
Anyone use an adapter with there OEM 120/240 EVSE to go from a 50 amp 3 prong to the 14-50 on the EVSE? My dad has the 3 prong 50a for his welder and wondering if that would be safe for the OEM EVSE.
 
DustanT said:
Anyone use an adapter with there OEM 120/240 EVSE to go from a 50 amp 3 prong to the 14-50 on the EVSE? My dad has the 3 prong 50a for his welder and wondering if that would be safe for the OEM EVSE.

As long as the adapter is UL rated or at least high quality, it should be fine. The EVSE only takes as much current as it needs, so you can go higher in amperage - just not lower than a 40 amp circuit.

(Actually, charging from a 30A circuit would work - it just violates the electrical code and over hours you could get too much heat or a tripped breaker.)
 
DustanT said:
Anyone use an adapter with there OEM 120/240 EVSE to go from a 50 amp 3 prong to the 14-50 on the EVSE? My dad has the 3 prong 50a for his welder and wondering if that would be safe for the OEM EVSE.
You'd probably have to build one your self, not a big deal, I have several different adapters I've made. You just need a female 14-40, some heavy gauge wire(10g minimum) and a male plug of the style you want to convert from. Now going to a 14-50f you might be able to find a "Tesla" type adapter already made, on Amazon or such but they are quite easy to make and generally less than 1/2 or more the cost of a premade adapter.
Your welder outlet doesn't have a neutral but EVSEs don't use the neutral anyway so it will be just fine.
 
jjeff said:
DustanT said:
Anyone use an adapter with there OEM 120/240 EVSE to go from a 50 amp 3 prong to the 14-50 on the EVSE? My dad has the 3 prong 50a for his welder and wondering if that would be safe for the OEM EVSE.
You'd probably have to build one your self, not a big deal, I have several different adapters I've made. You just need a female 14-40, some heavy gauge wire(10g minimum) and a male plug of the style you want to convert from. Now going to a 14-50f you might be able to find a "Tesla" type adapter already made, on Amazon or such but they are quite easy to make and generally less than 1/2 or more the cost of a premade adapter.
Your welder outlet doesn't have a neutral but EVSEs don't use the neutral anyway so it will be just fine.

Thank you I'll get one made up.
 
DustanT said:
jjeff said:
DustanT said:
Anyone use an adapter with there OEM 120/240 EVSE to go from a 50 amp 3 prong to the 14-50 on the EVSE? My dad has the 3 prong 50a for his welder and wondering if that would be safe for the OEM EVSE.
You'd probably have to build one your self, not a big deal, I have several different adapters I've made. You just need a female 14-40, some heavy gauge wire(10g minimum) and a male plug of the style you want to convert from. Now going to a 14-50f you might be able to find a "Tesla" type adapter already made, on Amazon or such but they are quite easy to make and generally less than 1/2 or more the cost of a premade adapter.
Your welder outlet doesn't have a neutral but EVSEs don't use the neutral anyway so it will be just fine.

Thank you I'll get one made up.

Or you can buy this one: https://www.evseadapters.com/collections/adapters-for-tesla/products/nema-6-50p
 
For our brand new 2019 Leaf, after professional installation of a 14/50 circuit, with the plug in the receptacle, (but not attached to the car), there was a loud bang and the breaker flipped. Is there something special about the Nissan Leaf plug - like neutral is not supposed to be connected??

The EVSE still works fine on 110-120 but I dare not try it again on the 200 till the dealer explains what is going on. 50 amps could do some real damage to a human being.
 
junoman said:
For our brand new 2019 Leaf, after professional installation of a 14/50 circuit, with the plug in the receptacle, (but not attached to the car), there was a loud bang and the breaker flipped. Is there something special about the Nissan Leaf plug - like neutral is not supposed to be connected??

The EVSE still works fine on 110-120 but I dare not try it again on the 200 till the dealer explains what is going on. 50 amps could do some real damage to a human being.

The Nissan unit is designed for a 4-wire 14-50 receptacle. Therefore, the Nissan unit needs to be checked for internal fault and the receptacle wiring/connections need to be verified.

Edited to add: Problem is more likely improper wiring of receptacle if it is new and has never been used.
 
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