2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

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I have a 2017 Leaf (used to have a 2013) and I have 12k miles on it now. No bar loss. We hardly ever charge to 100% but QC every day. I don't think QC is as big a problem as charging the car to 100%, and with your post, that further solidifies that presumption.
 
pointlomadave said:
I have a 2017 Leaf (used to have a 2013) and I have 12k miles on it now. No bar loss. We hardly ever charge to 100% but QC every day. I don't think QC is as big a problem as charging the car to 100%, and with your post, that further solidifies that presumption.

Yes, I see your point. It's easy with QC as it doesn't go till 100% but with home charging at L2 there is no way to stop it at a certain %.

What's your location?
 
cwerdna said:
3 bar loser reported at https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan.leaf.owners.group/permalink/1732882726782561/ at 8,666 miles.

At https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan.leaf.owners.group/permalink/1732882726782561/?comment_id=1732917863445714&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R9%22%7D, he states he lives near Orlando, FL. At https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan.leaf.owners.group/permalink/1732882726782561/?comment_id=1732917863445714&reply_comment_id=1733220393415461&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R%22%7D he states a build month of 2/16 and he bought it in 9/16.

He's obviously well on his way to getting a replacement.

You sense anything strange about this guy's story?
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
cwerdna said:
3 bar loser reported at https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan.leaf.owners.group/permalink/1732882726782561/ at 8,666 miles.

At https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan.leaf.owners.group/permalink/1732882726782561/?comment_id=1732917863445714&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R9%22%7D, he states he lives near Orlando, FL. At https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan.leaf.owners.group/permalink/1732882726782561/?comment_id=1732917863445714&reply_comment_id=1733220393415461&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R%22%7D he states a build month of 2/16 and he bought it in 9/16.

He's obviously well on his way to getting a replacement.

You sense anything strange about this guy's story?

No. He posted on 8/14 that he was down 2 bars at 7700 mi.
 
Wife's 2016 Leaf (leased April 2016) has been down to 9 bars for at least a few weeks.

AHr= 53.31
SOH= 67%
Hx= 65.40%
Odo= 16,478 mi
QC= 26
L1/L2= 535


Glad we leased.
 
iPlug said:
Wife's 2016 Leaf (leased April 2016) has been down to 9 bars for at least a few weeks.

AHr= 53.31
SOH= 67%
Hx= 65.40%
Odo= 16,478 mi
QC= 26
L1/L2= 535


Glad we leased.
Yowza! I see you're in a hotter part of CA. At this rate, I think you'll be down to 8 bars by mid-July 2018, if not well before.

Out of curiosity, what's the build month? It's on the driver's side door sticker.
 
cwerdna said:
Yowza! I see you're in a hotter part of CA. At this rate, I think you'll be down to 8 bars by mid-July 2018, if not well before.

Out of curiosity, what's the build month? It's on the driver's side door sticker.

Build month: Nov 2015

Only 10 miles on the car during the ~5 months between manufacture and lease. Do not recall the state of charge when we took possession of the car. Would have only been exposed to cool winter months at these latitudes in the northern hemisphere during that time.

Should add that the Leaf could have been down to 9 bars for at least the last few months. The wife is no enthusiast and just drives the car and did not know how the bars worked; I rarely drive the Leaf.

I had no reason to suspect advanced battery deterioration until she pointed out the decreased driving range a few weeks back then caught the 9 bars.

Anticipated some battery degradation, but never guessed we would have the battery replaced during the 3-year lease, I'm guessing (8 bars) could be in the next few months, but with these cool temperatures, may not happen until spring/summer.
 
We leased a 2016 LEAF with a 30 kWh battery in August 2016. Date stamped inside door panel is 12/15. We are located in Austin, TX.

We lost our first bar in August 2017 after 12 months of ownership, at just under 15,000 miles.
We just lost our 2nd bar yesterday at 17,890 miles.

We've had the car for 16 months and already lost two bars. Our fully charged range on the GOM is now around 75-80 miles down from the 110-120 we saw when it was new.

-Jeremy
 
So disappointing to see all these reports of capacity loss in the new 30 kWh. Elsewhere I was reading about how the physical size of increased capacity is same and there is no thermal management which is causing this issue. Now I don't know a whole lot about these things but it concerns me if this issue will be compounded in the next version which has 40 kWh but again no thermal management.

I was looking to buy next Leaf but Bolt is starting to sound like a better option now. :( Not trying to start a Bolt v/s. Leaf thing but just venting.
 
I have a 2017 Model S and it's starting to look like the battery is degrading more quickly than I would expect. I've only had it for about 5 months and have only put about 3k miles on it so it's very early and hard to tell what is due to seasonal temperature change vs battery loss. Also, my commute is only 10 miles and my home town is about 5 miles end-to-end so I never really push the range. Still, come next summer, I'll probably have to get an accurate idea of what the battery is doing and decide whether to baby it or go for a replacement. I'll never hit 100k miles but I plan to keep the car for a long time so I could hit the 8 year mark. All in all, I'm not worried about it since even if it drops to 20kWh it would still suit all my needs but if I can get a battery replacement under warranty then why not? Time will tell.
 
I just lost the first bar on my 2016 LEAF SL with the 30 kWh battery after only 15,100 miles. The battery is losing about 1% of its capacity every 1000 miles. At this rate, I'll be down to 8 bars by roughly 35,000 miles (15% for the first bar and 7% per subsequent bar). The talk about rapid degradation in the 30 kWh batteries seems to be true. I live near Dallas and split my driving roughly evenly between highway and city speeds. I only use Level 2 chargers. My LEAF is great to drive, but the rapid battery loss is very disappointing.

UPDATE: LeafSpy stats just after loss of first bar:
AHr=63
SOH=79%. 369V
Hx=73%
QC=5
L1/L2=430

Build date: April 2016
Possession date: Dec 2016
It presumably sat on the dealer lot all summer near Dallas at a high state of charge, but I don’t know for sure.
 
jlv said:
Are you using LeafSpyPro to track the battery?

LeafSpy but not Pro yet. When I first got LeafSpy it read around 97% SOH, now down around 92% if I remember correctly. I don't check it that often. GOM still gives me 120 miles on a full charge but that really means about 100. L2 charges almost all the time usually to 80-90%. I've been to 100% a few times to balance the cells now that weather is cooler. Never went over 85% during the summer. Lowest the battery ever got to was 9% a week ago. Usually charge when it hits around 20%.
 
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
I wonder if someone will have made a 3rd party 18650-cell based (with active TMS) replacement pack by before the 8y 100k warranty elapses?

That is certainly possible. Who knows what the cost of an 18650 will be in 5 years? Since removing the battery pack on a Leaf is so simple, it should be easy for an enthusiast to build a replacement pack that fit in place of the original. I don't know what kind of capacity you would get or how to add the TMS though. And there could easily be issues with licensing and insurance.

It will be interesting but for me it's academic at this point. I drove my 10 miles to work today and it was the first time in snow. Temp was about 18 out and I cozy in the cabin and still show ~70 miles on the GOM while running the heat. Even if I had half the battery capacity I do now, it would be fine. This is after charging up to 95% last night at work before I drove home. Plus, in 8 years, I'll be retired :mrgreen:
 
boxman737 said:
I just lost the first bar on my 2016 LEAF SL with the 30 kWh battery after only 15,100 miles. The battery is losing about 1% of its capacity every 1000 miles. At this rate, I'll be down to 8 bars by roughly 35,000 miles (15% for the first bar and 7% per subsequent bar). The talk about rapid degradation in the 30 kWh batteries seems to be true. I live near Dallas and split my driving roughly evenly between highway and city speeds. I only use Level 2 chargers. My LEAF is great to drive, but the rapid battery loss is very disappointing.
Welcome to the forum, boxman737!

I'm sorry to hear about your rapid capacity loss, but we appreciate you coming here to let us know what you are seeing. The good news, if there can be any good news in battery degradation, is that you will almost certainly receive a replacement battery under your vehicle's warranty. Hopefully you can still find use in your vehicle with a three-bar-degraded 30-kWh battery.
 
boxman737 said:
I just lost the first bar on my 2016 LEAF SL with the 30 kWh battery after only 15,100 miles. The battery is losing about 1% of its capacity every 1000 miles. At this rate, I'll be down to 8 bars by roughly 35,000 miles (15% for the first bar and 7% per subsequent bar). The talk about rapid degradation in the 30 kWh batteries seems to be true. I live near Dallas and split my driving roughly evenly between highway and city speeds. I only use Level 2 chargers. My LEAF is great to drive, but the rapid battery loss is very disappointing.
Sorry to hear that, brother. Our climate is tough on the Leaf.

One question, when you get home, do you immediately plug-in and charge? If so, you might consider using the charging timer to delay the charge, giving the battery some time to cool before charging and to minimize the time spent at 100% charge. Of course, you might want to wait until you get the replacement battery first..
 
goldbrick said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
I wonder if someone will have made a 3rd party 18650-cell based (with active TMS) replacement pack by before the 8y 100k warranty elapses?

That is certainly possible. Who knows what the cost of an 18650 will be in 5 years? Since removing the battery pack on a Leaf is so simple, it should be easy for an enthusiast to build a replacement pack that fit in place of the original. I don't know what kind of capacity you would get or how to add the TMS though. And there could easily be issues with licensing and insurance.

You guys make it sound like designing/building a battery pack...or TMS...which would basically require a new BMS...is easy (not to mention "dropping" a 600 lb high-voltage mass)!
The reality is no one will be building a battery pack for the Leaf 1.0 except Nissan anytime soon: there's no profit in it! I'm on my second battery pack (see sig), and the take-away for me is: I will look at the Leaf 2.0 when the larger (non-Nissan) battery pack becomes available.
 
You are aware that people have been electrifying ICE cars for years? I would assume it is much harder to add an electric motor, batteries and controls to a former ICE car than to just replace a battery pack with known voltage and current requirements and an already existing plug, charging port, controller, etc etc etc.

Would it be easy? Doubtful. Do I expect someone to make a business out of it? Probably not. Could someone do it and then document their design so that others could copy it? Probably.

Would it be worth it? That entirely depends. I do all my own ICE car maintenance today and it pays a lot less than my day job but I have the time, tools and know-how. Plus I enjoy it, find it somewhat interesting and I save a lot of money.

I'm not advocating this for everyone but people design and build their own airplanes these days so filling a Leaf battery pack case with 18650 batteries and doing whatever controller updates would be required is something that I'm sure someone will take on at some point.
 
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