2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
DaveinOlyWA said:
mn4az said:
mn4az said:
Another Minnesotan here. Adding some initial stats to this thread:

'13 Leaf SV (Leased) - Leased 34 months. Drove 41K miles. All 12 bars intact when returned car. Mostly charged to 80% between midnight and 5a.

'16 Leaf SV (Purchased - Manufactured 12/15) . Typical charging pattern is to try and charge to 75-90%. Charging typically happens between midnight and 5a.

Date Ahr SOH V Hx ODO QC L1/L2 SOC
11/10/2016 74.49 93% 388.84 88.41 9769 3 350 87.70%
11/26/2017 70.85 89% 345.54 83.71 24414 7 1198 30.30%

The 11/10/2016 was actually a test for a friend. He wanted to ensure he could get a good read before testing used Leafs.
The 11/26/2017 reading is my test to make sure I could get the readings on my phone.

Pretty happy that in over a year my SOH only dropped 4%.

On Tuesday I plan on charging the car to 100% SOC and taking another set of readings which I will report back into the thread.

Here's my state from today from the Lite version of LeafSpy

Ahr = 70.85
SOH = 89%
V = 395.32
Hx = 83.71%
ODO = 24414
QC = 7
L1/L2 = 1205
SOC = 97.8%

Anyone care to comment on what they see within those stats?

The only change we'll make is to charge to 100% SOC when we know we may be at risk of dropping to <25% during the days driving. In the past we focused on holding near 80% SOC and if you got home at 5% SOC so be it. One other change will be, if we get home with <25% SOC to charge it to 30% - then finish the charge off during the evening hours when rates are less (off peak charging).


there is very little risk to charging to 100% during cold weather. Degradation after A YEAR is only 6% @ 32ºF verses 2% @ 40% SOC (general Li guidelines only here) so an overnight or even a few days? Not something you should do but if it happens, its nothing to lose sleep over. We also have to keep in mind, lower Winter range so charging to a higher SOC is not only minimally bad thing to do, its simply being prepared for the worst.

Its Summer you need to worry about and yeah, it will be more than warm enough.

The reality appears to be what happened before you got the car. 10% down on day one it would seem. Look at the stats of your 2013 and I think time on the lot is your main factor.

We purchased the '16 Leaf in April 2016. Took first Leaf Spy readings on 11/10/2016 - after driving the car almost 10K miles - disappointed with the 7% SOH drop in only 7 months. However, my perspective is that after 19 months of ownership, 24K miles of driving that I wish my SOH was higher than 89% but can't be too disappointed compared to some of the other stories I have read.
 
Hi everyone. I live in Northern England in the UK and own a 30 kWh Leaf which I took delivery of on the 31st December 2015. I'm also a member of the Speak EV forum which seems to be predominantly frequented by EV owners from the UK and Europe. There is a Leaf Battery degradation thread there

https://speakev.com/threads/the-battery-health-thread.18923/

Anyway, I found this thread interesting because I've only heard of one single instance of a 30kWh Leaf loosing a battery bar in the UK and that was used as a Taxi and lost the first bar at ~90k miles. My own Leaf has 94% SOH (75.43AHr) after 16500 miles.

Why are US Leaf batteries degrading so fast?

Two possible hypotheses

1. The 30kWh Leaf battery is far more sensitive to heat than the 24kWh version. The UK climate is very kind to Leaf batteries with temperatures above 90f pretty rare.

2. The batteries in European Leafs were built in a different way and are more robust.

Hope this information is useful.
 
Another 4 bar loser, in Chandler, AZ:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/247364142001101?view=permalink&id=1721195921284575

4th bar gone at under 16.2K miles in under 2 years. He says he has a 30 kWh car that was built in late 2015.
 
cwerdna said:
Another 4 bar loser, in Chandler, AZ:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/247364142001101?view=permalink&id=1721195921284575

4th bar gone at under 16.2K miles in under 2 years. He says he has a 30 kWh car that was built in late 2015.
Have any of the 4 bar losers reported SOH or SOC data ?
 
Unless they find a way to fix this Nissan could be replacing that Arizona pack four times under the warranty. At what point is it cheaper for them to just buy it back? (if the owner would even be amenable)
More likely they'll just keep replacing it however many times they have to, averaged across the fleet it isn't that big a deal, some number of cars will get totalled, others the owners (could be second or third by then) will stop bothering with it or whatever.
 
SageBrush said:
cwerdna said:
Another 4 bar loser, in Chandler, AZ:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/247364142001101?view=permalink&id=1721195921284575

4th bar gone at under 16.2K miles in under 2 years. He says he has a 30 kWh car that was built in late 2015.
Have any of the 4 bar losers reported SOH or SOC data ?
This one didn't, but I'm fairly sure we have SOH data from at least 1 4 bar loser further up in this thread.

Oils4AsphaultOnly: I wouldn't be that concerned about an 18 mV imbalance. Imbalances seem to get larger while the battery is under heavier loads anyway.
 
I wasn't concerned about the imbalance (that red box was an artifact of my view at the time), but of the accelerating degradation after one summer's heat wave. I started in may (6-months after initial lease) @ 100% SOH, and then it started declining not too long after - down 9% in the next 6-months.

Come to think of it. That 18mV difference was immediately after a full rebalancing charge! I had literally just started the car and took the screenshot before driving off.
 
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
and then it started declining not too long after - down 9% in the next 6-months.
Hard to stomach, is it not ?

Our LEAF is doing fine for our use case, but when I see similar degradation rates it just makes me want to sell the car.
 
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
and then it started declining not too long after - down 9% in the next 6-months.

Do remember that this is the BMS's (Battery Management System) estimate, and the BMS isn't very accurate at estimating capacity. It can be off by 10%, and maybe more. Why do I say that?

My current estimate is that I have about a 10% loss, with 38000 miles on my 2014. I base my estimate on recharging power, range at known speed on a round trip with little wind, and so on. At times the BMS has agreed. However, my driving/charging varies a lot. So I get to see some more interesting estimates from the BMS than perhaps most people do.

My Ahr has been as low as 57.8. My SOH has been as low as 88% My Hx has been as low as 87.35%

My BMS showed zero loss on 11/20/2017. Ahr= 65.64, SOH= 100% HX= 100.59%
BMS yesterday showed this(11/29/2017). Ahr = 61.60, SOH= 94%, Hx= 94.91%

Gee, 6% loss in 9 days. Should I panic?
 
WetEV said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
and then it started declining not too long after - down 9% in the next 6-months.

Do remember that this is the BMS's (Battery Management System) estimate, and the BMS isn't very accurate at estimating capacity. It can be off by 10%, and maybe more. Why do I say that?

My current estimate is that I have about a 10% loss, with 38000 miles on my 2014. I base my estimate on recharging power, range at known speed on a round trip with little wind, and so on. At times the BMS has agreed. However, my driving/charging varies a lot. So I get to see some more interesting estimates from the BMS than perhaps most people do.

My Ahr has been as low as 57.8. My SOH has been as low as 88% My Hx has been as low as 87.35%

My BMS showed zero loss on 11/20/2017. Ahr= 65.64, SOH= 100% HX= 100.59%
BMS yesterday showed this(11/29/2017). Ahr = 61.60, SOH= 94%, Hx= 94.91%

Gee, 6% loss in 9 days. Should I panic?

There must be something wrong with your BMS. I've never seen SOH fluctuate that wildly before. Are these your calculated SOH or readings from LeafSpy?

I had a 2013 (see my sig) that didn't degrade anywhere like my 2016 is degrading. All the readings in my sig are at 100% SOC for consistency.
 
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
There must be something wrong with your BMS. I've never seen SOH fluctuate that wildly before. Are these your calculated SOH or readings from LeafSpy?

I had a 2013 (see my sig) that didn't degrade anywhere like my 2016 is degrading. All the readings in my sig are at 100% SOC for consistency.


This is from LeafSpy.

Some of the reasons why my SOH fluctuates that wildly is that my driving varies a lot. Weeks with multiple long trips of 180+ miles per day and multiple DCQCs mixed with months of short drives of a few miles, charging for an hour once a week to keep the SOC above 30% and below 80%. Temperature matters a lot as well.

Back when my driving was much more consistent, I didn't see as much variability.
 
WetEV said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
There must be something wrong with your BMS. I've never seen SOH fluctuate that wildly before. Are these your calculated SOH or readings from LeafSpy?

I had a 2013 (see my sig) that didn't degrade anywhere like my 2016 is degrading. All the readings in my sig are at 100% SOC for consistency.


This is from LeafSpy.

Some of the reasons why my SOH fluctuates that wildly is that my driving varies a lot. Weeks with multiple long trips of 180+ miles per day and multiple DCQCs mixed with months of short drives of a few miles, charging for an hour once a week to keep the SOC above 30% and below 80%. Temperature matters a lot as well.

Back when my driving was much more consistent, I didn't see as much variability.

I see. Well, my daily commute *cough* grind *cough* is ~60 miles (even my weekend errands cover ~50 miles), so there's less chance of variability.

Plus it sounds like you should re-balance your pack before taking a reading for better consistency.
 
WetEV said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
and then it started declining not too long after - down 9% in the next 6-months.

Do remember that this is the BMS's (Battery Management System) estimate, and the BMS isn't very accurate at estimating capacity. It can be off by 10%, and maybe more. Why do I say that?

My current estimate is that I have about a 10% loss, with 38000 miles on my 2014. I base my estimate on recharging power, range at known speed on a round trip with little wind, and so on. At times the BMS has agreed. However, my driving/charging varies a lot. So I get to see some more interesting estimates from the BMS than perhaps most people do.

My Ahr has been as low as 57.8. My SOH has been as low as 88% My Hx has been as low as 87.35%

My BMS showed zero loss on 11/20/2017. Ahr= 65.64, SOH= 100% HX= 100.59%
BMS yesterday showed this(11/29/2017). Ahr = 61.60, SOH= 94%, Hx= 94.91%

Gee, 6% loss in 9 days. Should I panic?

LOL, this is normal cold weather effects. I laugh when I read about everyone in the Southern Tier being encouraged because their battery stats go up when it gets cold while mine go down when its cold.

Now a lot of mine going down has to do with long periods of low usage. Its always slow for me from Nov to the day after Christmas so that is part of it. As always I will do a blog on my monthly driving log and it will be "slightly" lower than my 2500 mile per month average over the past 7 months
 
Pretty darn bummed to find that I lost a bar this morning. The car is 9 months old with 9600 miles on it. Has been QCed only twice but yes it has been charged everyday to 100%. Glad that it is only a 2 year lease.
 
3 bar loser reported at https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan.leaf.owners.group/permalink/1732882726782561/ at 8,666 miles.

At https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan.leaf.owners.group/permalink/1732882726782561/?comment_id=1732917863445714&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R9%22%7D, he states he lives near Orlando, FL. At https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan.leaf.owners.group/permalink/1732882726782561/?comment_id=1732917863445714&reply_comment_id=1733220393415461&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R%22%7D he states a build month of 2/16 and he bought it in 9/16.

He's obviously well on his way to getting a replacement.
 
cwerdna said:
Mods, please merge this into http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=23606.

Thanks cwerdna. I tried to search and could not find that thread earlier. It is disappointing to see so many new cars having battery (capacity loss) issues. :(
 
Back
Top