Does SoH Rule All?

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eyemgh

Active member
Joined
Oct 26, 2017
Messages
33
Location
Ashland, OR
I have another thread going trying to ascertain how close people are getting to asking price to figure out what I should look to pay. This is more about vetting an EV.

My gut tells me that SoH rules all, but I don't know that for sure. For example, if I find a '13 with 90% and the exact same configuration in a '14, also with 90%, is it likely that they will have the same pack life, all else equal? I'm trying to determine whether or not there's any value in paying a premium for a newer model.

I guess the same question holds for mileage. Let's say 15k with 90% SoH versus 30k with 90% SoH. Is there value in paying lots more for the lower mileage car.

In an ICE car, I'd have a better handle, but for an EV, I've got no clue.

Thanks!
 
Think of SOH as equivalent to the health of the engine and transmission of an ICE car. Would you want a rusty or banged up ICE with a great drivetrain? You should look for several cars that match what you are looking for in model and options, then pick the one with the best SOH, much as you'd do with an ICE purchase and prospective drivetrains. With the caveat that an early build (or maybe any month 2016 build) 30kwh 2016 Leaf may lose capacity faster than you expect.
 
I'm beginning to suspect that AHr is the most important indicator of battery health. Anecdotally, people seem to consistently lost their first capacity bar at between 55 AHr and 56 AHr values, but the SOH values seem to be more variable (anywhere from 81% to 87% range) when the first bar drops.

I know my Leaf is close to losing the first bar, but I can't complain as my mileage is now pushing 58k. Guess I won't be getting a free replacement battery ;)
 
alozzy said:
I'm beginning to suspect that AHr is the most important indicator of battery health. Anecdotally, people seem to consistently lost their first capacity bar at between 55 AHr and 56 AHr values, but the SOH values seem to be more variable (anywhere from 81% to 87% range) when the first bar drops.

This is what I have come to believe as well (bold font added by me above). I'm on my second battery pack...hovering around the high-end of those AHr values and low-end of those SOH values...and suspect I won't drop my first bar until the weather gets warmer again, which would be an improvement over the original battery pack. However, I seem to remember that first bar didn't drop on my original battery pack until closer to 53 AHr?
 
OP, you have discovered the seekret formula to buying LEAF cheaply:

High (and true) SOH/Ahr, high(er) mileage, and good condition car

This works because dealers do not in general know how to assess battery health so they go by mileage and "12 bars." Since pretty much all LEAFS are low mileage cars when they come off lease and there has been very little change in design from 2012 -- 2015 besides the battery improvement in 4/2013+, an informed buyer buys an older car in good shape with a good battery.

In your shoes I would target late 2014 cars in good condition with ~ 90% battery remaining (60 Ahr, 90% SOH) and "high" mileage, meaning high 20s, low 30s k miles
 
That's sort of where my rapid learning has led me. Taking it one step further, probably a SV with CHAdeMO and LED headlights, but without the premium package, seems like the sweet spot for "the deal."

My biggest challenge is geographic isolation. There aren't a lot of options close by. It's hard to Leaf Spy from a distance. Any strategy suggestions?
 
I towed my LEAF home using a trailer from U-Haul. The trailer was cheap, but you need access to an appropriate vehicle with a 2" hitch.
 
@eyemgh Some dealerships actually know how to use LeafSpy and will give you the SOH and AHr values. Some will even email you LeafSpy screenshots. Paramount Motors NW did that for me, which gave me the confidence to drive down from Vancouver, CA to Seattle to check it out. I also looked at several other Leafs en route, at a Nissan dealership in Edmonds, WA.

An added challenge for me was importing the vehicle into Canada.

So, it's really about how badly you want to get a good deal and what lengths you'll go to to make that happen.

I figured I would have the Leaf for 5 years, so I felt it was well worth the effort to take Amtrak down to Seattle and then to drive the Leaf back home (several DCQCs and a final L2 in Bellingham). Round trip was close to 300 miles. You could likely get a better deal in Portland, as long as you are prepared to put in the work and time to pull it off.

Autotrader listings for Portland area, in case you're interested:

https://goo.gl/2UW5q7
 
I think Portland is very doable given the infrastructure for charging on I-5. The Bay area has some intriguing options, but driving it home in any reasonable time wouldn't e an option. From Sac to Ashland the DCQC options are too limited.
 
The other huge benefit of a Portland Leaf is that you are way more likely to get a healthy battery, even on a higher mileage one. Ideally, you find a WA Leaf being sold by a dealership in Portland.
 
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