2016 30 kWh Battery data

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Lost the second bar today! ODO = 34271 mi. AHr = 59.36, SOH =74%, Hx = 66.91% 58 QC's, 640 L1/L2's. Could it be that the first bar is 20% and the next 3 bars are 5% each? That would give a 4 bar loss at 65% which is close enough to the 66% you would expect for the loss of 4 bars out of 12. Also the 20% loss on the first bar is what Nissan expected at 100000 mi. So the car would have all twelve bars up to the end of the warranty period if the battery held up as expected. Then the last 8 bars would be 8% each. Or it could be that first bar is 20% and the next 11 are about 7% each which is more likely to my mind. Who knows how Nissan has programmed them. Time will tell. I'm expecting a replacement battery by next summer at this rate. Have there been any reports of a 3 bar loss yet?
 
If Nissan has not manipulated the warranty, the 30 kWh LEAF should have its battery eligible for replacement at around 51-52 Ahrs with 4 capacity bar loss. Losing the second bar at 75% SOH is still off the mark of a 24 kWh battery (where it happens at ~ 79% SOH) but actually somewhat reassuring in the sense of the second bar dropping after 5% SOH loss.

I suppose the least obnoxious version of this degradation/CB game is that Nissan did not change the threshold for replacement but did change the thresholds for each bar loss. That might make sense if Nissan is trying to increase the fraction of off-lease cars that still show 12 bars.

We will see.
 
johnlocke said:
Lost the second bar today! ODO = 34271 mi. AHr = 59.36, SOH =74%, Hx = 66.91% 58 QC's, 640 L1/L2's. Could it be that the first bar is 20% and the next 3 bars are 5% each?

My theory they are just random %-ages with the odometer and in-service date based seed to the algorithm that makes sure the capacity gauge doesn't drop below 4 bars while within the capacity warranty.
 
We now have reports of at least 4 cars with 4 bar losses. Per the Nissan Help Desk, third bar drops at 70% and the Fourth bar drops at 63% Two owners report that the fourth bar loss was around 60% Now at least we have some concrete evidence of when to expect a replacement battery. The 60% number isn't particularly exciting since that equals 18 KWH capacity. For me, that works out to 64 miles total and I drive 55 miles round trip every day. Doesn't leave much margin for error or extra errands. On the bright side, Nissan also confirmed that the original 100,000 mi/8 year warranty would still cover a replacement battery. That means that it's possible to have the battery replaced several times under the warranty.
 
johnlocke said:
We now have reports of at least 4 cars with 4 bar losses. Per the Nissan Help Desk, third bar drops at 70% and the Fourth bar drops at 63% Two owners report that the fourth bar loss was around 60% Now at least we have some concrete evidence of when to expect a replacement battery. The 60% number isn't particularly exciting since that equals 18 KWH capacity. For me, that works out to 64 miles total and I drive 55 miles round trip every day. Doesn't leave much margin for error or extra errands. On the bright side, Nissan also confirmed that the original 100,000 mi/8 year warranty would still cover a replacement battery. That means that it's possible to have the battery replaced several times under the warranty.

numbers based on Nissan BMS as we already know have a wide variance due to likely calibration issues. Since each pack should drop bars at about the same SOC, this is a good example of the error caused partially by charging/driving habits, unbalanced cells and a BMS that has simply lost count...
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
johnlocke said:
We now have reports of at least 4 cars with 4 bar losses. Per the Nissan Help Desk, third bar drops at 70% and the Fourth bar drops at 63% Two owners report that the fourth bar loss was around 60% Now at least we have some concrete evidence of when to expect a replacement battery. The 60% number isn't particularly exciting since that equals 18 KWH capacity. For me, that works out to 64 miles total and I drive 55 miles round trip every day. Doesn't leave much margin for error or extra errands. On the bright side, Nissan also confirmed that the original 100,000 mi/8 year warranty would still cover a replacement battery. That means that it's possible to have the battery replaced several times under the warranty.

numbers based on Nissan BMS as we already know have a wide variance due to likely calibration issues. Since each pack should drop bars at about the same SOC, this is a good example of the error caused partially by charging/driving habits, unbalanced cells and a BMS that has simply lost count...

Some variation, but at least for the 24 kWh models the bar drops for ~ 2 SD of the reports are within an Ahr of each other.
 
SageBrush said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
johnlocke said:
We now have reports of at least 4 cars with 4 bar losses. Per the Nissan Help Desk, third bar drops at 70% and the Fourth bar drops at 63% Two owners report that the fourth bar loss was around 60% Now at least we have some concrete evidence of when to expect a replacement battery. The 60% number isn't particularly exciting since that equals 18 KWH capacity. For me, that works out to 64 miles total and I drive 55 miles round trip every day. Doesn't leave much margin for error or extra errands. On the bright side, Nissan also confirmed that the original 100,000 mi/8 year warranty would still cover a replacement battery. That means that it's possible to have the battery replaced several times under the warranty.

numbers based on Nissan BMS as we already know have a wide variance due to likely calibration issues. Since each pack should drop bars at about the same SOC, this is a good example of the error caused partially by charging/driving habits, unbalanced cells and a BMS that has simply lost count...

Some variation, but at least for the 24 kWh models the bar drops for ~ 2 SD of the reports are within an Ahr of each other.

battery numbers for 24 kwh packs showed the same volatility which we all know is simply not really possible so any similarity in the numbers when the bars dropped only meant packs that were equal in balance and calibration. But if you look at enough you will see several incidences when that did not happen.

Just search for "When does the last..." or "Why hasn't my 4th bar dropped?" etc for those who lost bars at lower than the norm. Were they persecuted. made to wait longer than the rest? Or simply was the BMS simply on holiday? I am betting on the latter.

Remember we did at least one incidence of someone who lost their 4th bar, took it to the dealership and it failed the degradation test. Even stranger was the fact that the test somehow restored his 4th bar. So he had to take the LEAF back home, drive it for a bit more until the bar disappeared again...

So yeah, the numbers are at best guidelines due to the VERY wide tolerance the BMS seems to be using.
 
johnlocke said:
On the bright side, Nissan also confirmed that the original 100,000 mi/8 year warranty would still cover a replacement battery. That means that it's possible to have the battery replaced several times under the warranty.
The 100,000/ 8 warranty is only for battery failures. Which we have seen is very hard to get even with a cell pair that stays 700mv out of balance. He had to get the media involved and hire a lawyer.
.
The 4 bar capacity loss waranty will be hard to get for most owners as it is 60,000/ 5 years.
 
sendler2112 said:
johnlocke said:
On the bright side, Nissan also confirmed that the original 100,000 mi/8 year warranty would still cover a replacement battery. That means that it's possible to have the battery replaced several times under the warranty.
The 100,000/ 8 warranty is only for battery failures. Which we have seen is very hard to get even with a cell pair that stays 700mv out of balance. He had to get the media involved and hire a lawyer.
.
The 4 bar capacity loss waranty will be hard to get for most owners as it is 60,000/ 5 years.

the "degradation" warranty on 30 kwh packs is a MINIMUM 8 years or 100,000 miles which ever comes first.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
sendler2112 said:
Ok. I forgot they extended that with the new pack. They will be buying many replacements
I am getting a sneaking suspicion they already knew that.
Coming from you, that sounds hyper-critical. Are you really coming around to accepting the obvious ?

I know that sounds nasty, so I'll mention that I love your EV advocacy. Just not so much the head-in-the-sand approach to Nissan and LEAF deficiencies.
 
SageBrush said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
sendler2112 said:
Ok. I forgot they extended that with the new pack. They will be buying many replacements
I am getting a sneaking suspicion they already knew that.
Coming from you, that sounds hyper-critical. Are you really coming around to accepting the obvious ?

I know that sounds nasty, so I'll mention that I love your EV advocacy. Just not so much the head-in-the-sand approach to Nissan and LEAF deficiencies.

not sure what you are implying but the drastic change of quality in packs that are "supposed" to be the same would be a road we have already traveled.
 
It's October and I've taken a hit on capacity in the last couple of weeks. Down to 268 GID's. AHr = 59.69, SOH = 73%, Hx = 66.02%. 34527 miles, 58 QC and 645 L1/L2. Lost another 13 GID's last month compared to July and Aug with 8-9 each. Not sure why but I did see the same pattern last year. I expect to lose the third bar around Jan and the fourth bar sometime next summer. If I get below 68% SOH I'm going to have to do a lot more DCQC, Maybe as often as 2-3 times a week. Don't know how that will affect the battery but it probably won't be good.
 
The next releases of LeafSpy will increase the resolution of SOH by a factor of 100. SOH will then be displayed as xx.xx%.

I will need feedback on this change as to whether this higher resolution SOH is updated while driving or only changes when the Leaf is first driven. Easiest way to track this is to turn on Logging and then check the log file after a drive.

iOS Version 1.5.23 which is currently awaiting review by iTunes has this change.
 
Turbo3 said:
The next releases of LeafSpy will increase the resolution of SOH by a factor of 100. SOH will then be displayed as xx.xx%.

I will need feedback on this change as to whether this higher resolution SOH is updated while driving or only changes when the Leaf is first driven. Easiest way to track this is to turn on Logging and then check the log file after a drive.

iOS Version 1.5.23 which is currently awaiting review by iTunes has this change.

Nice! This helps in my case when I have SOH at 100% but 2 of the 5 (Hx, Ahr) are no longer at their "new car" number.
 
Just back to this forum after a while and am totally shocked to see so many 30kwh packs with such high degradation. All things being equal, these packs should have degraded at a rate 20% slower than their 24kwh counterparts because they cycle through less frequently for the same mileage. It now seems like the temp impact is greater on these cars, likely a result of the increased density of the cells.

I've got a 2015 S with 53K miles. It's a 3.5 year old car and I've still got 12 bars and 262 GIDS at full charge. Seems like this is higher than many 2016 cars?

I'm sorry Nissan but you have completely failed on this battery. There's not a chance in hell that I would ever buy another Leaf from you, especially with the new model doubling down on no TMS.
 
tkdbrusco said:
Just back to this forum after a while and am totally shocked to see so many 30kwh packs with such high degradation. All things being equal, these packs should have degraded at a rate 20% slower than their 24kwh counterparts because they cycle through less frequently for the same mileage. It now seems like the temp impact is greater on these cars, likely a result of the increased density of the cells.

I've got a 2015 S with 53K miles. It's a 3.5 year old car and I've still got 12 bars and 262 GIDS at full charge. Seems like this is higher than many 2016 cars?

I'm sorry Nissan but you have completely failed on this battery. There's not a chance in hell that I would ever buy another Leaf from you, especially with the new model doubling down on no TMS.

Heard about the Guy in OR who has lost about 12-13% in under 15,000 miles?

First thing I would do is eliminate Heat as an excuse.
 
tkdbrusco said:
Just back to this forum after a while and am totally shocked to see so many 30kwh packs with such high degradation. All things being equal, these packs should have degraded at a rate 20% slower than their 24kwh counterparts because they cycle through less frequently for the same mileage. It now seems like the temp impact is greater on these cars, likely a result of the increased density of the cells.

I've got a 2015 S with 53K miles. It's a 3.5 year old car and I've still got 12 bars and 262 GIDS at full charge. Seems like this is higher than many 2016 cars?

I'm sorry Nissan but you have completely failed on this battery. There's not a chance in hell that I would ever buy another Leaf from you, especially with the new model doubling down on no TMS.
My 2016 with 12k mi is at 10 bars and 261 GIDS at full charge.
 
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