2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

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yeah nothing sounds right about this car. He has lost 1/3rd of his capacity and only ONE bar? hmmm? 5 months sitting on a lot in AZ including the ENTIRE Summer...

There seems to be a key piece of data missing... could be anything but there is definitely something else going on with this car
 
ebeighe said:
I have a new 2017 Leaf S delivered 7/27/2017; not sure of build data, where do i see that?
The battery numbers from Leafspy seem to be dropping significantly/quickly!?
Arizona. So it's hot here obviously. Also something that hadn't really occured to me until afterward, but it's parked in the garage which stays maybe no cooler than 90 degrees all summer.
The battery temp bars stays at 7 almost all the time; it goes to 8 once in awhile, and it dropped to 6 once when it was rainy/cloudy for a day...

Here's what leafspy said/says:

Code:
07/29/2017
odo 115	
Ahr 81.92
SOH 100%
Hx 98.05

9/9/2017
odo 1106
Ahr 76.05
SOH 95%
Hx 91.08

build date is on the driver's door jamb. Based on your VIN, I would guess Dec 2015-Feb 2016?
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
yeah nothing sounds right about this car. He has lost 1/3rd of his capacity and only ONE bar? hmmm? 5 months sitting on a lot in AZ including the ENTIRE Summer...

There seems to be a key piece of data missing... could be anything but there is definitely something else going on with this car

Battery check scheduled tomorrow at Power Nissan in Chandler. I will report the results.

I believe the car had full capacity on delivery with the GOM reporting over 100 miles range for the first 3 months.
BTW: The car has been garaged for most of this summer as I am semi-retired. 10 QCs and 284 L1/L2s in a year.
 
Hey Guys, I have a 2016 SV with a 30 kWh battery that has lost two bars. The first was around 12k miles, and the second at 17k miles. My car is now at 19,800 miles and I FINALLY bought Leaf Spy and an OBDII adapter because my range has dropped considerably in the past month or so. My stats are as follows, AHr = 52.31, SOH = 65%, and Hx = 61.23%. I am now getting range anxiety on my 65 mile daily commute (roundtrip). I'm in Phoenix, and while I know that the heat kills our battery, I expected it to hold up better than my 2013 SV that did not have the "Lizard Pack". My 2013 lost it's first bar around 20k miles, and when I turned it in at 47k I had just lost my 3rd bar. At this rate I feel like I'll be due for a 4 bar replacement in no time. I've read through this thread, and can't seem to find out when to expect to lose my 3rd and 4th bars. Does this knowledge exist yet? Also should I be concerned something else is wrong with it, possibly bad cells or something? I'm happy I decided to lease again, as I almost went with the purchase option given the larger battery. I do charge to 100%, and use a L2 charger at home. According to LeafSpy I have used QC 6 times. Any thoughts?
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
ebeighe said:
I have a new 2017 Leaf S delivered 7/27/2017; [edit: the build date is 04/2017]
The battery numbers from Leafspy seem to be dropping significantly/quickly!?
Arizona. So it's hot here obviously. Also something that hadn't really occured to me until afterward, but it's parked in the garage which stays maybe no cooler than 90 degrees all summer.
The battery temp bars stays at 7 almost all the time; it goes to 8 once in awhile, and it dropped to 6 once when it was rainy/cloudy for a day...

Here's what leafspy said/says:

Code:
07/29/2017
odo 115	
Ahr 81.92
SOH 100%
Hx 98.05

9/9/2017
odo 1106
Ahr 76.05
SOH 95%
Hx 91.08

build date is on the driver's door jamb. Based on your VIN, I would guess Dec 2015-Feb 2016?
Yes, there it is, thanks -- the build date is 04/2017
 
ebeighe said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
ebeighe said:
I have a new 2017 Leaf S delivered 7/27/2017; [edit: the build date is 04/2017]
The battery numbers from Leafspy seem to be dropping significantly/quickly!?
Arizona. So it's hot here obviously. Also something that hadn't really occured to me until afterward, but it's parked in the garage which stays maybe no cooler than 90 degrees all summer.
The battery temp bars stays at 7 almost all the time; it goes to 8 once in awhile, and it dropped to 6 once when it was rainy/cloudy for a day...

Here's what leafspy said/says:

Code:
07/29/2017
odo 115	
Ahr 81.92
SOH 100%
Hx 98.05

9/9/2017
odo 1106
Ahr 76.05
SOH 95%
Hx 91.08

build date is on the driver's door jamb. Based on your VIN, I would guess Dec 2015-Feb 2016?
Yes, there it is, thanks -- the build date is 04/2017

OUCH!! It seems the newer batteries are worse for Arizona than the old packs (or maybe AZ is now warmer than before)?! My 30kwh S was built in Oct 2016 (~6 months older) and I'm not seeing anywhere near the degradation, but I've been very diligent about manually keeping the charge under 90% and above 30%.

2nd bar lost at 65% is going to be a huge problem, as that would be the point where the old pack would've already dropped the 4th bar!
 
berclese said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
yeah nothing sounds right about this car. He has lost 1/3rd of his capacity and only ONE bar? hmmm? 5 months sitting on a lot in AZ including the ENTIRE Summer...

There seems to be a key piece of data missing... could be anything but there is definitely something else going on with this car

Battery check scheduled tomorrow at Power Nissan in Chandler. I will report the results.

I believe the car had full capacity on delivery with the GOM reporting over 100 miles range for the first 3 months.
BTW: The car has been garaged for most of this summer as I am semi-retired. 10 QCs and 284 L1/L2s in a year.

UPDATE: Of course, Nissan says my 66% SOH battery is doing great at one year of service. The battery information sheet is worthless as it just rates your use of charging and driving usage, presumably from the Nissan Connect data. It also shows the bars left in a graph, nothing we don't already know. No data on SOH, kWh or projected range.

The service rep said 20-25% capacity loss in the first year is average. I hope the loss is going to slow this year. This car is going to become worthless to me if the range gets much worse.
 
berclese said:
berclese said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
yeah nothing sounds right about this car. He has lost 1/3rd of his capacity and only ONE bar? hmmm? 5 months sitting on a lot in AZ including the ENTIRE Summer...

There seems to be a key piece of data missing... could be anything but there is definitely something else going on with this car

Battery check scheduled tomorrow at Power Nissan in Chandler. I will report the results.

I believe the car had full capacity on delivery with the GOM reporting over 100 miles range for the first 3 months.
BTW: The car has been garaged for most of this summer as I am semi-retired. 10 QCs and 284 L1/L2s in a year.

UPDATE: Of course, Nissan says my 66% SOH battery is doing great at one year of service. The battery information sheet is worthless as it just rates your use of charging and driving usage, presumably from the Nissan Connect data. It also shows the bars left in a graph, nothing we don't already know. No data on SOH, kWh or projected range.

The service rep said 20-25% capacity loss in the first year is average. I hope the loss is going to slow this year. This car is going to become worthless to me if the range gets much worse.

You and I are in the same boat, and I was hoping you were going to have better news today. I'm in Phoenix too, and this is my second LEAF. My 2013 SV didn't degrade like this at all. I agree with you about the car becoming worthless, and can't imagine what the range will be like when I finally lose my 4th bar. I read an article last night about contacting Nissan's Customer Support to start documenting this early, just to avoid headaches when it finally does qualify for replacement. I plan on calling them later today or tomorrow. Have you reached out to them yet?
 
LeftieBiker said:
IF you can find a way to keep the pack cooler, that pack will last longer. I realize it may not be possible.
ya, I get that. At this point i don't plan to take extraordinary measure (AC the garage!?), and my driving habits turn out to be relatively cool in terms of battery temp -- very little highway speeds, for example. And anyway range really isn't a big issue to me, short commute, and generally low miles overall.

i'll just wait and see... i know nobody really knows how the 8yr capacity degradation warrantee will play out but 8 years is a long time from my perspective.
 
berclese said:
The service rep said 20-25% capacity loss in the first year is average. I hope the loss is going to slow this year. This car is going to become worthless to me if the range gets much worse.
Ok, that pretty much seals the deal for me. I won't be upgrading my 24 KWh 2011 to a 30 KWh 2016-17. Sorry Nissan, it will be a Tesla Model 3 for me.
 
berclese said:
UPDATE: Of course, Nissan says my 66% SOH battery is doing great at one year of service. The battery information sheet is worthless as it just rates your use of charging and driving usage, presumably from the Nissan Connect data. It also shows the bars left in a graph, nothing we don't already know. No data on SOH, kWh or projected range.

The service rep said 20-25% capacity loss in the first year is average. I hope the loss is going to slow this year. This car is going to become worthless to me if the range gets much worse.
Hey that's really, um, interesting. I have a (2017) S, does the SL give you any more battery stats that the S?
(I noted above that its SOH is down to 95% after just a bit over 1 month of use, albeit in the summer)
When you said "The service rep said 20-25% capacity loss in the first year is average", i think you're saying it's not in the battery information sheet, so where do you suppose he's getting that info? or are they privvy to actual data, data that we're presumably privvy to via leafspy?
 
samrovner said:
berclese said:
berclese said:
Battery check scheduled tomorrow at Power Nissan in Chandler. I will report the results.

I believe the car had full capacity on delivery with the GOM reporting over 100 miles range for the first 3 months.
BTW: The car has been garaged for most of this summer as I am semi-retired. 10 QCs and 284 L1/L2s in a year.

UPDATE: Of course, Nissan says my 66% SOH battery is doing great at one year of service. The battery information sheet is worthless as it just rates your use of charging and driving usage, presumably from the Nissan Connect data. It also shows the bars left in a graph, nothing we don't already know. No data on SOH, kWh or projected range.

The service rep said 20-25% capacity loss in the first year is average. I hope the loss is going to slow this year. This car is going to become worthless to me if the range gets much worse.

You and I are in the same boat, and I was hoping you were going to have better news today. I'm in Phoenix too, and this is my second LEAF. My 2013 SV didn't degrade like this at all. I agree with you about the car becoming worthless, and can't imagine what the range will be like when I finally lose my 4th bar. I read an article last night about contacting Nissan's Customer Support to start documenting this early, just to avoid headaches when it finally does qualify for replacement. I plan on calling them later today or tomorrow. Have you reached out to them yet?

I am under the suspicion that Nissan may have moved the SOH/capacity bar relationship for the 30 kWh battery. My car will likely drop it's second bar very soon. Have you taken your car in for the yearly battery check? That may help you in the long run (no pun intended). I have not contacted customer service. Please let us know how that goes.
 
The Nissan annual check-up is $100 down the drain for nothing, or less than nothing if you assign a negative value to BS.
One thing I would do is run LeafSpy on the battery to exclude the possibility of a bad cell as the cause of the plummeting range.

If that is the answer then Nissan may still try to BS you that you are above the replacement threshold and you will have to educate them on the meaning of a manufacturing defect.
 
My service rep said that if you get the battery check within 30 days of the anniversary of your delivery date, its free. I was not charged. I agree that the check is worthless, especially if you have LeafSpy. Someone on this forum implied you will have an easier time getting a replacement battery when you lose the fourth bar, if you have the yearly checks.
 
berclese said:
My service rep said that if you get the battery check within 30 days of the anniversary of your delivery date, its free..
Good to know -- that is something.

Although I vaguely remember that being the case for the first year only, now that you mention it.

I hope you grab a screen capture of LeafSpy showing the cell histogram and share it here. It will help clarify if LEAF batteries are just garbage, or if you simply have a battery with a cell or two that should not have passed quality control. My bet is the latter, and it would give you recourse now under the manufacturing defect warranty.
 
SageBrush said:
berclese said:
My service rep said that if you get the battery check within 30 days of the anniversary of your delivery date, its free..
Good to know -- that is something.

Although I vaguely remember that being the case for the first year only, now that you mention it.

I hope you grab a screen capture of LeafSpy showing the cell histogram and share it here. It will help clarify if LEAF batteries are just garbage, or if you simply have a battery with a cell or two that should not have passed quality control. My bet is the latter, and it would give you recourse now under the manufacturing defect warranty.

It has a 12 mV spread with centered distribution at 4.118 V. This is a battery capacity loss issue, likely triggered by heat.
 
Another 2016 30 kWh owner checking in with rapid capacity loss compared to the 2013 model I had previously. I'll add all my stats later, but I'm showing around 22.5 kWh usable capacity with SOH of 79% and Hx of 76%. When the car was new I could easily go 120-130 miles and now I'm down to about 100. I've still got all 12 bars on the dash.

I hadn't paid much attention in recent months since the range is still adequate for my commute of about 65 miles. I also moved recently and don't have a L2 installed at my house yet so I've been doing strictly L1 charging and probably a weekly QC. When I first started noticing the diminished range over the last couple weeks I assumed my pack was just out of balance since I wasn't regularly getting to 100% charge. My max voltage differential at low battery is only around 12 mV though and that's only 6 at high charge.

Pretty disappointing. I haven't read the whole thread yet but I'm curious where most people are losing their first bar? I'm shocked that a 20% capacity loss hasn't triggered it. I agree with the sentiments expressed here that this looks like deliberate obfuscation by Nissan.
 
I'm another 2016 30kWh owner checking in with rapid degradation.

I just lost my first bar at 15385 miles, leaf spy shows 65.889 AHr, 82% SOH and 78.18 Hx.

I live in Minnesota and we had a mild summer, yet the SOH dropped from 88 to 82 from May to August. I never see seven temp bars. I ran it all the way down to let LeafSpy do its cell balance check, all cells OK.

It is very troubling to me that Nissan is changing the value of a bar at their will. The local service manager claims all bars are equal, really? His Leaf tech, who owns a Leaf, stands behind and rolls his eyes.

Love the car. The battery, its warranty and Nissan we shall see.
 
techchimp said:
It is very troubling to me that Nissan is changing the value of a bar at their will.
To be fair, Nissan in the '16 Leaf warranty booklet never listed any corresponding value(s) for any # of capacity bars vs. % of capacity remaining. So, they are unfortunately free to use whatever mapping they want.

http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Battery#Battery_Capacity_Behavior is in the '11 Leaf service manual. I do recall it being missing in the '12 and '13 service manual. Unclear why it was removed.
 
techchimp said:
I live in Minnesota and we had a mild summer, yet the SOH dropped from 88 to 82 from May to August.
If you lost a bar in 15k miles in Minnesota, there is something seriously wrong. What's the build date of your LEAF and how long ago did you get it?

Anyone measure the energy from the wall to recharge a 30 kWh bar loser from turtle to 100%?

It is easy to validate BMS data that way.
 
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