How many 2011 and 2012 LEAFs are still on the road today?

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I can imagine that as the EV car saturation develops in the next few years, New electric cars will go up in price. Even If not by a lot, the new EVs will go up in price due to ... the federal and state tax credits will disappear. Then, all of a sudden, all Leafs will suddenly be worth $5-7K more, and it WILL BE WORTH IT TO CHANGE THE BATTERIES...

That is when the true value of having a Leaf will be seen. At this time, people are spoiled in that they can by a PRACTICALLY NEW CAR for $6-9K, and are complaining that a $5000 battery is worth scrapping the car.. Yet, in the regular used car market, people dump $10-15K on a used car (no warranty) like nothing!! Man, no matter how good we have it, we still think we are getting a bad deal..
 
Good points - for those of us in the off-grid energy market, the price of the older Leafs - even with a "degraded" battery is less than what you would pay for any lithium technology based energy storage system (in cents/watt-hour and with high quality BMS). Getting that energy out in-situ does present some technical problems however.
 
I have no insight to this question. But my 2012 is at about 43k miles and down to about 80% capacity. It serves my needs very well, and would continue to do so with only 50% capacity since I have a short commute and can charge at home and at work. All of my errands are close, too; I don't often drive more than 30 miles in a day.

The reason that I would replace it with a newer EV is that the newer EV could do more rather than the 2012 Leaf no longer doing what I bought it for. That is a real temptation. But again, it's not about a limitation of having an older car. For me, I could continue to drive my Leaf for probably another 10 years on the original battery. But I may choose not to.

A lot of 2011/2012 original owners are probably in a similar situation. We were early adopters. We knew what sacrifices the cars would require and were ok with that. But now that newer, better, cars are arriving, the temptation is to upgrade. Unlike that 10-year-old PC that can no longer handle even browsing the web (because ads now require so much more processing power), my Leaf will continue to perform the function for which I bought it for years to come.
 
powersurge said:
I can imagine that as the EV car saturation develops in the next few years, New electric cars will go up in price. Even If not by a lot, the new EVs will go up in price due to ... the federal and state tax credits will disappear. Then, all of a sudden, all Leafs will suddenly be worth $5-7K more, and it WILL BE WORTH IT TO CHANGE THE BATTERIES...

That is when the true value of having a Leaf will be seen. At this time, people are spoiled in that they can by a PRACTICALLY NEW CAR for $6-9K, and are complaining that a $5000 battery is worth scrapping the car.. Yet, in the regular used car market, people dump $10-15K on a used car (no warranty) like nothing!! Man, no matter how good we have it, we still think we are getting a bad deal..

I would argue the opposite of the first point. Losing the tax rebates will force automakers to lower prices, not raise prices. That's why there are rumors of Nissan trying to set the MSRP of the new Leaf at $24K. This is the price it would need to be without tax rebates.

The price of used Leaf's will go up based on demand, which will go up when more people realize how much fun and cost-savings they provide, in addition to being better for the environment. I think the used market is "fast-follower" market that takes new technologies to scale. I bought a used leaf about a month ago, and have already convinced several people who hadn't even considered an EV to look into it. They approach me every day with new deals they found on autotrader. It's only a matter of time before they close a deal.

I totally agree that a new battery will be totally worth it, and shouldn't prevent anyone from buying a used car at their current prices. I bought my 2014 with 14,000 miles on it for $10K. In 3-5 years I wouldn't hesitate to pay for a battery. The thing about EVs is that the ride quality doesn't degrade with age like an ICE car. How much would a used civic cost if it would ride like new for 200,000 miles?
 
If the EV market continues to expand there will likely end up being a good used supply of replacement batteries banked up, allowing people to maintain their cars
 
I can't see that EV prices will FALL in the future. I cant see Nissan selling the new Leaf for $24K because it is a bad business model to sell a futuristic car at fire sale prices.

Tesla commands a high price for their EVs, and the other Electric cars should sell them at a price which (maybe a bit higher than ICE cars) will make customers want to enter the futuristic transportation arena. People will buy, and pay a premium on something they feel is a luxury, not on something that gets deeply discounted.... Then they lose the sense of relative value when something is cheap...

Look at Apple... People camp out for weeks to gladly shell out tons of money when a new product comes out. Also, what would happen to the price of diamonds if they tried to get everyone to buy "just some rocks they found in the ground..."
 
Hello,
My 11 Leaf just hit 60k miles. The battery is at 10 bars (77%) and it still serves my needs perfectly. I will drive it till the battery hits 50% to 60% then replace the battery. My calculations at 60k miles say I've already saved $5650 over fuel costs for the vehicle it replaced. At our Prius' efficiency it comes to $4125. Anyway you slice it the cost of a new battery will be more than compensated for in savings. So too will the second battery be.
 
I have a pearl white 2012 SL with under 26k......just lost bar #4 .....I get 60 miles at best with a level 2 charge....slightly more when using level 1 charger. But I usually loose 15 miles immediately within a 2-3 mile trip. My regen is barely there....went to trade it in and was offered $3500.00 for a car that is nearly spotless. My battery warranty is good til Dec 17 this year....so I will have it replaced......maybe then I will keep it or try to sell privately.
 
Tpsfoto said:
I have a pearl white 2012 SL with under 26k......just lost bar #4 .....I get 60 miles at best with a level 2 charge....slightly more when using level 1 charger. But I usually loose 15 miles immediately within a 2-3 mile trip. My regen is barely there....went to trade it in and was offered $3500.00 for a car that is nearly spotless. My battery warranty is good til Dec 17 this year....so I will have it replaced......maybe then I will keep it or try to sell privately.
With a new battery it should regain all regen and be basically like a new car, even better as the new battery will be more heat resistant and last longer :) If you still want a EV and are OK with the original range of your Leaf I'd say keep it, not much better available yet and even with a new battery you'd be lucky to get 1/4th the cost of new :(
 
powersurge said:
I can't see that EV prices will FALL in the future. I cant see Nissan selling the new Leaf for $24K because it is a bad business model to sell a futuristic car at fire sale prices.

Tesla commands a high price for their EVs, and the other Electric cars should sell them at a price which (maybe a bit higher than ICE cars) will make customers want to enter the futuristic transportation arena. People will buy, and pay a premium on something they feel is a luxury, not on something that gets deeply discounted.... Then they lose the sense of relative value when something is cheap...

Look at Apple... People camp out for weeks to gladly shell out tons of money when a new product comes out. Also, what would happen to the price of diamonds if they tried to get everyone to buy "just some rocks they found in the ground..."

I think $24K is the price that Nissan will have to hit with their next model. The $7500 federal tax rebate expires after 150,000 cars are sold. That number will certainly be reached during the Gen 2 model. $24K is simply the current base MSRP minus the tax rebate. If Nissan had to sell/lease the current model at $31K with no rebates, they would not sell many cars. I think the same will be true for the Gen 2 model.
 
Last fall My friend, who had helped me with a legal issue, indicated she was interested in getting a used EV. Since I had gotten a new battery for my 2011 Leaf under warranty I could have kept driving it, but I was interested to see what kind of deal I could get on a new Leaf with 30 kWh and extra range.

I did end up getting a new 2017 Leaf, which I am very happy with. And my friend got my 2011 which had 62000 miles on it, but a new battery. It fit her life style as she doesn't drive that much and was happy to no longer drive a gasoline car.

I am sure she will get many more years of use out of the 2011 Leaf and I am glad to see one more person driving Electric. :D
 
webb14leafs said:
The $7500 federal tax rebate expires after 150,000 cars are sold.
Incorrect nor is it a rebate. It is a tax CREDIT.

See Phaseout at the bottom of http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/taxevb.shtml.
The credit begins to phase out for vehicles at the beginning of the second calendar quarter after the manufacturer has sold 200,000 eligible plug-in electric vehicles (i.e., plug-in hybrids and EVs) in the United States as counted from January 1, 2010. IRS will announce when a manufacturer exceeds this production figure and will announce the subsequent phase out schedule (Plug-In Electric Drive Motor Vehicle Credit Quarterly Sales).
There is a graphic with an example.

The credit becomes $0 at beginning of the 6th calendar quarter.
 
Nissan dropped the ball with the Leaf. The cars are well built, but they failed to properly engineer the battery thermal management system. You start with a car that already has the minimum range possible and after five years it can't realistically go further then 40-50 miles? Just because you guys where early adopters does not justify Nissan for selling a car with such a fundamental flaw. Many leaf owners are now left with a huge dilemma, fixing a car with 60,0000+ miles or getting a new one for $5500+ dollars. It's no wonder that the resale value is so low and this dilemma will only get worse. Especially compared to the volt and all other electric cars. The highest mileage Volt has 350,000 miles and 132,000 all electric miles. With no determinable capacity lost. Then there is the huge concern of the environmental impact of replacing , producing and recycling a component that should last at least the life of the car. CARB should require all electric cars to have a warranty that stipulates that batteries should last 150,000 miles and have at least 70% capacity left. Lets hope that a company designs a water cooled 40Kwh battery for the leaf with LG or Panasonic cells. Otherwise, the leaf will eventually litter junkyards and represent all that was wrong with electric cars.
 
Welcome to the forum Josealreyes!

Now that you are here it might be well to get up to speed on what is really happening with the LEAF. While it is true that early LEAFs have had issues with the 1st generation battery technology in some situations, that issue was pretty much solved 4 years ago, and today's LEAFs are as reliable as any other EV.

In fact it is not unusual to see 1st genertion LEAF crossing 150,000 miles on their original battery packs.

All first generation EVs and PHEVs have accelerated depreciation, but not because of the battery life, The industry that sets depreciation for used vehicles does not even factor battery condition in when determining the values of an EV. The biggest factors that determine depreciation are the incentives that a vehicle might have received when first sold, the advancements in a particular type of vehicle that makes older vehicles less desirable, and of course consumer demand. I think that you would be surprised to learn that in 2017 values for 1st generation LEAFs have actually increased over the last 6 months.

It is highly unlikely that Nissan will use a actively cooled battery pack anytime soon. The complexities, the costs, the weight, support power requirements and the over engineering required for a liquid cooled battery pack simply don't make sense for a mass market under $30K EV.

Now there are many that would disagree with this, but it is what it is, and Nissan is still the largest, most successful mass marketer of BEVs in the history of the world. The Nissan/Renault/Mitsubishi alliance (the 3rd largest manufacturer of vehicles in the world) continues to sell more EVs, all of which do not use active cooling, than all other manufacturers of EVs combined. That is a pretty good track record, and that will continue moving forward.
 
OrientExpress said:
Now that you are here it might be well to get up to speed on what is really happening with the LEAF. While it is true that early LEAFs have had issues with the 1st generation battery technology in some situations, that issue was pretty much solved 4 years ago, and today's LEAFs are as reliable as any other EV.
The reports from drivers in Southern California who have had their battery replaced under warranty suggest that the rate of capacity loss is not much better than the original batteries. Not sure where you came up with this "fact".
 
Stoaty said:
The reports from drivers in Southern California who have had their battery replaced under warranty suggest that the rate of capacity loss is not much better than the original batteries.

Not sure where you came up with your "people say" alt-facts either. But the reality is that cars that were built after 2013 are pretty much bullet-proof. Are there going to be edge cases? Of course, but if it was an actual wide-spread condition, you can be sure that this board would be full of such stories. Given the absence of complainers, it is a non-issue.
 
OrientExpress said:
But the reality is that cars that were built after 2013 are pretty much bullet-proof.
What data do you have to support your statement? What is the rate of capacity loss (both calendar and based on mileage) in areas with various climates? My guess is that expectations have been lowered such that it isn't news any more that Leafs lose capacity at an accelerated rate. Unless you have data to share, your statements have no more validity than mine.
 
My 2011 Nissan Leaf SL-e is still on the road. Anyway, when it is time to replace the Li-Ion Battery, I plan on getting the most "...current model year equivalent" Nissan Li-Ion Battery, and that includes Nissan's greater 30Kwh, 60 Kwh or 90 Kwh, so shall it be, per the Nissan LEAF Battery Capacity Warranty Class Action Settlement Lawsuit, signed of on July 7, 2015, U.S. Circuit Judge A. Wallace Tashima of the 9th Circuit U.S.
 
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