AntronX
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun May 22, 2016 12:17 pm
Delivery Date: 14 May 2016

Re: Rapid SOH loss since purchase.

Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:21 pm

Here is what my degradation chart looks like from reset to catching up with real degradation level:
Image

cwerdna
Posts: 8749
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Rapid SOH loss since purchase.

Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:29 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:what is your current driving/charging patterns?

these numbers can be inflated a bit by simply doing some long drives with full charges 4-5 days in a row or a half dozen QCs over a week or less. The numbers you are posting are well within swings I have intentionally done

Yep.

From Carfax and/or Autocheck, where did the car previously reside? How many miles are on it?

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 3240
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Rapid SOH loss since purchase.

Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:30 pm

@antronX,
I'm confused. I thought a reset only confuses the bar graph and not the Ahr readings (presumably from LeafSpy ?)
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

SageBrush
Posts: 3240
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Rapid SOH loss since purchase.

Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:38 pm

kingjamez wrote:Down to 56.0Ah on the drive home tonight. I'm in free fall it seems.
If your SOH is stable then I'd be somewhat optimistic that the Ahr will stabilize at a value that matches the SOH.

As an example, if a stable SOH is 80%, Ahr may level off at 64*0.8
Last edited by SageBrush on Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

AntronX
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun May 22, 2016 12:17 pm
Delivery Date: 14 May 2016

Re: Rapid SOH loss since purchase.

Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:55 pm

SageBrush wrote:@antronX,
I'm confused. I thought a reset only confuses the bar graph and not the Ahr readings (presumably from LeafSpy ?)

After battery stats data reset everything gets set to as if battery cells were brand new. So the data becomes: 66Ah, 100% SOH, 100% Hx regardless of charge state. Leafspy just displays what BMS is reporting after reset.

SageBrush
Posts: 3240
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Rapid SOH loss since purchase.

Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:57 pm

AntronX wrote:
SageBrush wrote:@antronX,
I'm confused. I thought a reset only confuses the bar graph and not the Ahr readings (presumably from LeafSpy ?)

After battery stats data reset everything gets set to as if battery cells were brand new. So the data becomes: 66Ah, 100% SOH, 100% Hx regardless of charge state. Leafspy just displays what BMS is reporting after reset.
Ouch

So much for having an easy way to identify resets. Does the SOH and Ahr drop in tandem to their pre-reset values ?
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

AntronX
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun May 22, 2016 12:17 pm
Delivery Date: 14 May 2016

Re: Rapid SOH loss since purchase.

Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:14 pm

SageBrush wrote:So much for having an easy way to identify resets. Does the SOH and Ahr drop in tandem to their pre-reset values ?

Here is SOH (top) and Hx chart. They do appear to follow Ah curve.
Image
(sorry for messy chart)

Leafspy is not a solution to identify resets. It is good to take a more detailed view at the battery SOH instead of looking at battery bars on the dash. But with common sense it may be deduced that, for example, 2014 car that lived in hot climate and with 20K miles on the clock, will not have 96% SOH and is likely been tampered with. One thing did not get reset was L1 L2 L3 charge counters. That may be a clue that in absence of recent battery replacement, it is not likely that a car with 203 L3 and 1600 L1/L2 charges will have 96% SOH or 62Ah battery stats.

Edit: Here is Leafspy screenshots before and after reset:
Image

cwerdna
Posts: 8749
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Rapid SOH loss since purchase.

Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:05 pm

AntronX wrote:
kingjamez wrote:Two days after buying it the SOH had dropped to 89%. A week later down to 86% and today it is at 85%.


Did the used car dealer somehow defeat leafspy and sell me a car with a bad battery?


Two red flags here, fast SOC drop off and used car dealer. When I bought my Leaf, it was reset in front of me by the seller as demonstration, from original 91% SOH.

Woah. Re: the reset, why? Did you ask for it? He/she wanted to show you that it could be done easily or to show you that the difference before and after a reset? Or, was it to show that the 91% SOH was likely accurate and that you could see 100% SOH is obviously wrong?

What did they reset it with? Nissan Consult III plus? Legit copy or something pirated? Something else?

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

AntronX
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun May 22, 2016 12:17 pm
Delivery Date: 14 May 2016

Re: Rapid SOH loss since purchase.

Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:20 am

cwerdna wrote:Woah. Re: the reset, why?...


The owner had a rugged tablet looking handheld diagnostic computer that plugged in to diag port on the Leaf. Seller went through scanning and clearing any DTCs that it could find in front of me. We got to battery section and battery health data and before I realized what it was, the seller tapped on battery reset as if was another DTC clear dialog. I did not react in time to stop it. Luckily I pulled battery data before reset with my Leafspy and screen saved it. I forgot to take a picture of the diagnostic computer that was used. It did look fairly expensive. I could try to contact the seller again to ask what computer it was.

kingjamez
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:13 pm
Delivery Date: 05 Mar 2017
Location: Fairfax, VA

Re: Rapid SOH loss since purchase.

Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:48 am

Wow, this is enlightening. I went into purchasing a leaf with the belief that Leafspy would tell me the real state of the battery pack. That appears to be false.

That's disappointing, I passed on a '15 to get my '14 when it appeared that the '14 had a better battery. It's fairly clear that the car I have is about to loose at least it's first bar when I thought I was getting a MUCH better battery.

Down to 55.75Ah as of this morning. It's interesting that the Ah/SOH/Hx keep dropping even when I haven't charged it. It's clear that the computer knows the actual state of the battery but is applying some sort of smoothing curve to the readings.

I wonder where my floor is, not looking like I'm going to hit it any time soon.

-Jim -a less enthusiastic Leaf owner.
2014 S w/QC

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