Is there a definitive answer on charging to 80% or 100%?

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DiamondDan73

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 28, 2015
Messages
64
Location
Southern California
I just had my traction battery replaced and I am picking it up today. I have a 2012 so I have the option to limit my charge to 80% or go for the full 100%.

Is it better to go to 80% vs 100%?

Is it worse to go below 20% or is there a certain percentage that you do not want to go below?

Is it worse to go below 20% or charge above 80%?

Thank you for any input.
 
The evidence for 80% isn't hard, but it is likely best, based on what we know of lithium cells, to usually charge to 80% and charge occasionally to 100% to equalize the pack, preferably right before using the car. Going below 20% isn't terrible, but leaving the state of charge below 25% isn't a good idea.
 
DiamondDan73 said:
I just had my traction battery replaced and I am picking it up today. I have a 2012 so I have the option to limit my charge to 80% or go for the full 100%.

Is it better to go to 80% vs 100%?

Is it worse to go below 20% or is there a certain percentage that you do not want to go below?

Is it worse to go below 20% or charge above 80%?

Thank you for any input.

In SoCal with a car that went through one battery already...

If you see similar to worse heat in the next few years anything over 40% SOC will be degradation, The higher the SOC the higher the degradation but heat is more important than the SOC in normal usage patterns (ie don't leave it charged to full any longer than you absolutely have to in minutes or hours).

My rule of thumb for bottom end is to avoid going below VLBW on a daily basis but I have no objection to going below VLBW once a week if I accidentally get there. When I do I try to charge it back to 1 mile above LBW per leafspy and then stop the charge to let it charge again later on the normal schedule if it is warm (trying to charge at the end of morning when it's cooler and the car won't stay charged long before I leave for the day).

But if any or all of that seems too much trouble just charge it and go. You'll still see heat degradation no matter how you baby it.
 
Templetong said:
Is the 80% option only available on older models? I don't see the option on a 2015...
It was removed on 2014+ Leafs for the US market: http://insideevs.com/2014-nissan-leaf-mostly-unchanged-as-range-technically-moves-up-to-84-miles/.
 
The 2011 & 2012 Leafs have to option to charge to 80% using the charge timer. Overriding the timer for any reason results in a 100% charge if left unattended. The 2013 Leaf - and that year only - also has a setting in the car's menu to limit all charging to 80%. That means you can plug it in anytime, and if you have the timer Off or set to always be active, it will only charge to 80% (or 79% in my quirky Leaf's case). You can also set the car's limit to 100%, the timer's limit to 80%, and it will then charge to 80% normally, or to 100% if the timer is overridden. A very handy feature, but one that resulted in a lower average EPA estimated range for the 2013 Leafs, so it was dropped after one year.

(Edited to correct a mistake.)
 
LeftieBiker said:
The 2011 & 2012 Leafs have to option to charge to 80% using the charge timer. Overriding the timer for any reason results in a 100% charge if left unattended. The 2013 Leaf - and that year only - also has a setting in the car's menu to limit all charging to 80% unless the Timer Override button is pressed. That means you can plug it in anytime, and if you have the timer Off or set to always be active, it will only charge to 80% (or 79% in my quirky Leaf's case). A very handy feature, but one that resulted in a lower average EPA estimated range for the 2013 Leafs, so it was dropped after one year.
Everything else you wrote is right but I'm not sure the bolded part is correct.

IIRC, if you have no timers enabled and you turn on the long life mode 80% setting, even if you press the timer override button ("immediate charge" button in Nissan parlance), it will not charge to over 80%. There's even some verbiage on page CH-38 of the '13 manual about that.

However, if you have enabled for 80% AND the separate (non-timer related) long-life mode 80% setting is off, I know that if you send a start charge command via Carwings/Nissan Connect, it will go to 100% (I do this frequently). I'm reasonably sure pressing timer override aka immediate charge will do the same thing, as well.
 
cwerdna is correct, at least on the '13 S model I have. If I enable 80% in the menu it will never charge past 80%(as someone else said many times it stops at 79%). Pushing timer override button still only charges to 80%. Now on my '12 I have it setup to immediately charge and up to 80%, pushing the timer override button on that car results in it charging to 100%(or roughly 92% in my case).
Personally I prefer the operation of the '13 but it can be a pain to have to turn the car ON and navigate the menu's if I want to temporarily go to 100%.
I still like to stop charging at 80% on both vehicles and only charge to 100% if I need the extra range(which is more often on the '12 due to it's lessened range) for I hope longer battery life and also on the '13 stopping charging at 80% still gives me basically maximum regen, over 90% SOC only gives me a bubble or two, which I don't like. The '12 has such poor regen it doesn't really seem to matter much :(
 
DiamondDan73 said:
I just had my traction battery replaced and I am picking it up today. I have a 2012 so I have the option to limit my charge to 80% or go for the full 100%.

Is it better to go to 80% vs 100%?

Is it worse to go below 20% or is there a certain percentage that you do not want to go below?

Is it worse to go below 20% or charge above 80%?

Thank you for any input.
Different strokes for different folks, I read about the issue long ago and just figured why mess with it. I leave my vehicle charging up to 100% all the time, sometimes many days at 100% without driving and my battery degradation is not any worse than what I've seen of others here who do baby the battery a lot. I like using climate control for the family to warm up the vehicle in winter and keep it cool in the summer, so it is plugged into the L2 all the time. I think the age of the battery, followed by extreme heat, followed by usage, then finally battery charge state probably go in order for what affects the battery the most. I am actually pretty hard on my Leaf, I use it as my work horse to transport family, haul junk, or tow trailers for site work.

Where I am, there are more chargers than gas stations, so the range is not quite as much of an issue for me. If you need maximum range at all times, then you might have to baby the battery a bit.
 
knightmb said:
Different strokes for different folks, I read about the issue long ago and just figured why mess with it. I leave my vehicle charging up to 100% all the time, sometimes many days at 100% without driving and my battery degradation is not any worse than what I've seen of others here who do baby the battery a lot. I like using climate control for the family to warm up the vehicle in winter and keep it cool in the summer, so it is plugged into the L2 all the time. I think the age of the battery, followed by extreme heat, followed by usage, then finally battery charge state probably go in order for what affects the battery the most. I am actually pretty hard on my Leaf, I use it as my work horse to transport family, haul junk, or tow trailers for site work.

Very bad advice (nearly all of it)!! There are many threads on this topic, but advice is typically:
1) Limit the time spent at 100% SOC as much as possible
2) Don't leave your car plugged in "all the time" unless you want a dead 12v battery

In general, heat exacerbates all battery degradation factors.
 
Stanton said:
knightmb said:
Different strokes for different folks, I read about the issue long ago and just figured why mess with it. I leave my vehicle charging up to 100% all the time, sometimes many days at 100% without driving and my battery degradation is not any worse than what I've seen of others here who do baby the battery a lot. I like using climate control for the family to warm up the vehicle in winter and keep it cool in the summer, so it is plugged into the L2 all the time. I think the age of the battery, followed by extreme heat, followed by usage, then finally battery charge state probably go in order for what affects the battery the most. I am actually pretty hard on my Leaf, I use it as my work horse to transport family, haul junk, or tow trailers for site work.

Very bad advice (nearly all of it)!! There are many threads on this topic, but advice is typically:
1) Limit the time spent at 100% SOC as much as possible
2) Don't leave your car plugged in "all the time" unless you want a dead 12v battery

In general, heat exacerbates all battery degradation factors.
I would tend to agree. Not sure if this is a good analogy but I like to think of it as someone saying they eat a diet high in fat and carbs.....and they haven't died(or developed high blood pressure, cholesterol)...... yet :)
True you might hear stories of people who can do all of what you quoted and their battery may still have all bars, but as you said basically all evidence says to the contrary :)
 
2) Don't leave your car plugged in "all the time" unless you want a dead 12v battery


If you can limit charging to 80%, you can leave the car plugged in most or all of the time, as long as you connect a 12 volt battery maintainer to the accessory battery while it's plugged in. This also works if you can't limit charging, but then you have a car sitting at 100% charge for way too long.
 
From what I recall from the actual user reports, the biggest factor, by far, was heat. Between that and normal calendar losses, whatever minor benefit to be gained from charging to 80% seemed trivially insignificant to me. I switched from 80% to 100% on the 2012 and of course my 2015 doesn't even have the option, and I couldn't care less. Going to 80% on such an already-limited pack is dreary, even if you don't really need the range.

I do still try to limit long periods of sitting at 100%, so I still employ an end-timer. But I really don't worry about it much.
 
LeftieBiker said:
2) Don't leave your car plugged in "all the time" unless you want a dead 12v battery


[edit] you can leave the car plugged in most or all of the time, as long as you connect a 12 volt battery maintainer to the accessory battery while it's plugged in.[edit]

I don't get this either (and I know it's been discussed on the Forum for years): who wants to leave their car "hooked-up" to more stuff? If you're really worried about it, replace the 12v lead-acid with a 12v Lithium (I did) and never worry about a dead battery again; so it costs a few extra $$!
 
Stanton said:
knightmb said:
Different strokes for different folks, I read about the issue long ago and just figured why mess with it. I leave my vehicle charging up to 100% all the time, sometimes many days at 100% without driving and my battery degradation is not any worse than what I've seen of others here who do baby the battery a lot. I like using climate control for the family to warm up the vehicle in winter and keep it cool in the summer, so it is plugged into the L2 all the time. I think the age of the battery, followed by extreme heat, followed by usage, then finally battery charge state probably go in order for what affects the battery the most. I am actually pretty hard on my Leaf, I use it as my work horse to transport family, haul junk, or tow trailers for site work.

Very bad advice (nearly all of it)!! There are many threads on this topic, but advice is typically:
1) Limit the time spent at 100% SOC as much as possible
2) Don't leave your car plugged in "all the time" unless you want a dead 12v battery

In general, heat exacerbates all battery degradation factors.
I was wondering about the 12v battery issue since I plan on renting another car for an extended trip of 1 month. I had planned to leave my Leaf plugged in as it is set to charge to 80% every morning but 1 weekly and that 1 is set to 100%. Should I consider also hooking up my 12v battery to a battery tender like I used to keep my motorcycle battery on during off season? Doesn't the 12v battery charge off the traction battery when it needs a charge anyway?
 
Stanton said:
Very bad advice (nearly all of it)!! There are many threads on this topic, but advice is typically:
1) Limit the time spent at 100% SOC as much as possible
2) Don't leave your car plugged in "all the time" unless you want a dead 12v battery

In general, heat exacerbates all battery degradation factors.
It is experience advice, I chose to ignore the SOC issue to see how it would affect me. My vehicle doesn't stay at 100% SOC for weeks, maybe a few days at most. I replaced my lead with lithium, so any dead 12v issues have been gone for a long time. Alchemy - Turning Lead into Lithium - 12 Volt Battery Mod (re-posted). I have one family member and one friend that both have a Leaf and told them to do the same, just leave it charged all the time. I monitor them both with LeafSpy to see how the stats compare to others here of the same model year and age. I haven't seen any data yet to suggest that the 3 of us are doing any worse than others. My parents have a Leaf and put 3,000 miles on it a month for work/personal reasons (they live out in the country and nearest anything is 25 miles away), very happy with those gas savings.

My advice is to use it like a car, as it was designed for. You don't buy a Leaf as a investment or toy, you buy it to use it.
 
Hopefully you told your friends and family that they are participating in an experiment that involves going against the usual ways of extending battery pack life.
 
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