arnis
Posts: 844
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:21 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 015896
Location: Estonia, Europe

Re: Recirculation has 3 modes to select: ON-OFF-MILD

Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:38 pm

Main AUTO mode means that air circulation is also in automatic mode (the same mode when it blinks twice).
Depending on conditions it is usually in MILD; defrost button forces fresh mode.
If main AUTO mode is modified (fan speed or direction) air inlet should still stay in AUTO.
For example changing fan speed still keeps air direction in automatic (it does change even without AUTO LED).

AUTO circulation is canceled if circulation button has been pushed.
AUTO circulation is activated with either long press of circulation or main AUTO mode button.

I believe it has memory after shutdown.

MILD recirculation depends on AC cooling active or not. If it is not then 30% is chosen if direction
is not in defrost and outside 14C or less (57.2F). Above that always fresh.
If AC LED is on: same behavior below 14C. Above that recirc constantly changing depending on AC demand.

The recirc button ignored the long press and didn't even turn on the recirculation.

Long press is AUTO mode. It is not ignored. AUTO mode is not the same as pressing twice so FRESH is shown on screen).
Short range EVs <30kWh -- Medium range: 30-60kWh -- Long range: >60kWh
Charging: Trickle <3kW -- Normal 3-22kW -- Fast 50-100kW -- Supercharging >100kW

powersurge
Posts: 940
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:24 am
Delivery Date: 06 Dec 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Recirculation has 3 modes to select: ON-OFF-MILD

Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:02 pm

Holy crap!!! My head is spinning with all of these possibilities and modes!! Like someone before mentioned, we need something like a recirculation slide switch (like I had on my first car, the 1969 Chevy Nova). Why not just have a digital bar graph (like the fan speed) of how much recirculation you have!! All this button pressing and mode switching can make you have an accident when the windows fog up on the road and you are trying to find the right way to get the fog to go away!! The Leaf is TERRIBLE with foggy windows, and this is the area of the car that I think is the MOST neglected by Nissan....

jpadc
Posts: 274
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 7:25 am
Delivery Date: 20 Dec 2014
Location: Indiana & Wisconsin

Re: Recirculation has 3 modes to select: ON-OFF-MILD

Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:20 pm

powersurge wrote:The Leaf is TERRIBLE with foggy windows, and this is the area of the car that I think is the MOST neglected by Nissan....

Boy the "MOST neglected" category sure has a lot of competition if you ask me, but I think the issue really boils down to something you alluded to in another thread which is that the LEAF is really only terrible with foggy windows if you are trying to conserve power so you can drive somewhere. On full out defrost the LEAF does pretty well against foggy windows, but it sucks an enormous amount of energy from that battery to accomplish that. We are use to car heat/defrost being effectively "cost free" as a byproduct of an ICE. The truth is if you want that same level of interior comfort and effectiveness with an EV, your going to severely curtail driving range. Just one more reason the EVs are not a good choice for everyone.
2013 Leaf S /w Charge Package - Purchased new in Iowa City Dec. 2014
My previous car was a 2008 Prius Touring Package 5 - 73k Miles, 43 MPG lifetime

powersurge
Posts: 940
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:24 am
Delivery Date: 06 Dec 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Recirculation has 3 modes to select: ON-OFF-MILD

Fri Feb 12, 2016 7:03 am

Yes, you are correct. The car is very capable of dealing with foggy windows. My issue, however, that we need to use the windshield defroster, a/c, and fan a lot more than I am used to with an ICE car. Yes, I guess that using more power for window defrosting is the cost of doing business with an electric car..

jjeff
Posts: 1645
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: Recirculation has 3 modes to select: ON-OFF-MILD

Fri Feb 12, 2016 7:26 am

powersurge wrote:Yes, you are correct. The car is very capable of dealing with foggy windows. My issue, however, that we need to use the windshield defroster, a/c, and fan a lot more than I am used to with an ICE car. Yes, I guess that using more power for window defrosting is the cost of doing business with an electric car..

I think what helps with an ICE car, at least in areas with lots of snow, is the heater is generally on quite a bit and is hot enough to dry out things like the floor mats and carpet. Generally with an electric car the heat isn't on to that degree and slush tends to build up, adding to the overall high humidity of the inside of the car. I've been trying a strategy lately and it's helped quite a bit with frosted windows, allowing me to slow the heater down quite a bit and still have the windows be frost free. I have Weathertech mats all around and whenever I notice they are building up with water I take my wet vac(I have a cordless one for ease of use) and suck the water out of the floor mats. The next morning after my morning preheat the mats are dry as a bone, if I hadn't sucked them dry they would still be full of water. It's not that I have to suck the water out on a daily occurrence, generally only during and a few days after a snow event. IMO the Weathertech mats were kind of overpriced but they do the job and they are much easier to suck the water out of that rubber ribbed mats I've used in the past. Also note the drivers mat stays in place because of a pin that comes up from the carpet, unfortunately the passenger and rear mats don't have the pin and require near constant pulling back to keep from creeping forward :( I don't like that!
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

BrockWI
Posts: 617
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:28 am
Delivery Date: 28 Mar 2014
Leaf Number: 423875
Location: Green Bay, WI.
Contact: Website

Re: Recirculation has 3 modes to select: ON-OFF-MILD

Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:04 am

+1 on wet vac / shop vac the floor mats. It make a very noticeable difference in keeping the humidity down inside the vehicle. If I don't do it I will sometimes find ice on the inside of the windows when it's really cold out, that is hard to get rid of. I also open the front and back passenger windows for a minute or two just as I arrive to work to let the warm moist air out and the cold dry air in, sometimes even leaving the windows cracked a bit open as well, weather permitting. But keeping the floor dry helps a lot.
Last edited by BrockWI on Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
3 kw solar pv - XW6048 - 8 L16's
4 ton GSHP
2003 VW TDI 170k miles - 52 mpg lifetime
evse level 2 - Clipper Creek HSC-40
2013 S model with QC package Mar of 2013
@60k miles - 61.72Ahr - 94 SOH - 95.61 Hx - 268 GID

powersurge
Posts: 940
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:24 am
Delivery Date: 06 Dec 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Recirculation has 3 modes to select: ON-OFF-MILD

Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:34 am

I think that JJEFF hit the nail on the head regarding the Leaf tendency to fog often. Yes, I agree that since we are generally thrifty with the use of the Leaf heater and air conditioner, any snow or rain water that enters in the cabin will fail to evaporate quickly, and then fog the windows when we DO use the heat!!!

Now that I think of it, there is a difference in my driving behavior, is that on a cold day with a gas powered car, I like to BLAST the heat, and also leave the windows open to get some air circulation (which I now think dries out the interior). On the Leaf, I NEVER open the windows while I run the heater because it will cancel the heating effect and waste electricity.

Thank you for your analysis!!

arnis
Posts: 844
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:21 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 015896
Location: Estonia, Europe

Re: Recirculation has 3 modes to select: ON-OFF-MILD

Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:44 am

So I tried the "fresh" option. It appears to have some positive effect on windows with same blower speed.
It does add a little to consumption but at near freezing weather range is never a problem (compared to below 0F :lol: )
Wet floormats is the worst enemy. Let's not forget that preheating the vehicle mostly has 100% recirculation mode
with short blasts of fresh air in between. Taking the water out is priority nr1.

About foggy windows - the only thing that is missing is something Volkswagen E-Golf has: electrically heated windshield.

Another way to deal foggy window is like BMW deals with it. It has fog sensor on the upper edge of windshield.
As soon as that sensor detects water droplets condensing it will add some more to defrost, very slowly. It then
learns minimum defrost and keeps it that way.
Unfortunately, Nissan is not a premium brand so they just won't do it.
They could theoretically reprogram climate control AUTO option better. But that is also not important for them.

Theoretically somebody could search for aftermarket heated windshield but I've not heard it exists.
Adding wiring is pretty easy.
Short range EVs <30kWh -- Medium range: 30-60kWh -- Long range: >60kWh
Charging: Trickle <3kW -- Normal 3-22kW -- Fast 50-100kW -- Supercharging >100kW

knightmb
Posts: 420
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:41 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Sep 2013
Leaf Number: 414897
Location: Franklin, TN

Re: Recirculation has 3 modes to select: ON-OFF-MILD

Fri Feb 26, 2016 4:02 pm

Great info, is this in the car manual anywhere?

I used an Anemometer to measure the difference, makes about a 30% difference in fresh air input. Learn something new every day. Works on my 2013 SV.

Recirculate has to be active first, then if you hold the button down for a few seconds, it will start blinking, let go and it opens up about 70% fresh air compared to the full fresh air mode. To get to full fresh air mode, you have to press Recirculate once (don't have to wait for it to switch back), then press again to switch to full fresh air mode.

The fresh air mode is remembered between vehicle power cycles, but is reset if you switch to Auto climate control or Windshield Defrost mode.

arnis wrote:Did you know that if you press recirculation button, air will be recirculated 100%.
If you press again, air will be 0% recirculated, but default AUTO mode or holding
recirculation button until it blinks twice (AUTO recirculation) usually has 20-30%
air recirculation. I read that in technical papers and verified just by listening.


It's true that in hot weather recirculation LED switches on if AC is used heavily
but that shows heavy recirculation. No way to see moderate recirculation.
Maybe this is why Leaf does fog up more than my ICE bimmer. I'll have some tests.
Perfect weather for foggy windows here in February :lol:

I believe I saw something similar in my bimmer. It has REAL automatic recirculation
mode that sniffs outside air for pollutants and activates if necessary with timer
limitations in heating/cooling. It has three doors that change their angles even in
fresh mode. I'll check that as soon as I crank my 40MPG diesel monster :mrgreen:

Anybody bored - check it out in the earliest Leafs too.
Anybody with CO2 meter and 4 extra passengers going on a trip :?: :)

jjeff
Posts: 1645
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: Recirculation has 3 modes to select: ON-OFF-MILD

Fri Feb 26, 2016 4:40 pm

knightmb wrote:Great info, is this in the car manual anywhere?

I used an Anemometer to measure the difference, makes about a 30% difference in fresh air input. Learn something new every day. Works on my 2013 SV.

Recirculate has to be active first, then if you hold the button down for a few seconds, it will start blinking, let go and it opens up about 70% fresh air compared to the full fresh air mode. To get to full fresh air mode, you have to press Recirculate once (don't have to wait for it to switch back), then press again to switch to full fresh air mode.

The fresh air mode is remembered between vehicle power cycles, but is reset if you switch to Auto climate control or Windshield Defrost mode.

arnis wrote:Did you know that if you press recirculation button, air will be recirculated 100%.
If you press again, air will be 0% recirculated, but default AUTO mode or holding
recirculation button until it blinks twice (AUTO recirculation) usually has 20-30%
air recirculation. I read that in technical papers and verified just by listening.


It's true that in hot weather recirculation LED switches on if AC is used heavily
but that shows heavy recirculation. No way to see moderate recirculation.
Maybe this is why Leaf does fog up more than my ICE bimmer. I'll have some tests.
Perfect weather for foggy windows here in February :lol:

I believe I saw something similar in my bimmer. It has REAL automatic recirculation
mode that sniffs outside air for pollutants and activates if necessary with timer
limitations in heating/cooling. It has three doors that change their angles even in
fresh mode. I'll check that as soon as I crank my 40MPG diesel monster :mrgreen:

Anybody bored - check it out in the earliest Leafs too.
Anybody with CO2 meter and 4 extra passengers going on a trip :?: :)

Yes it's in my '13 S manual in several places. Funny thing is they don't refer to it as a 70% fresh air option but they say it's for putting the circulation mode into auto mode :?
I didn't catch this the first time I looked at the manual when new but I've been reading through it lately and sure enough they say to hold down the circ button for a few seconds until it flashes a few times and then it will be in a auto mode, whatever that means :?

Oh thanks for clarifying what it does and what keeps it in the auto mode. It sounds like this auto mode is different than the temperature auto mode where it selects whether to use heat or AC and where to direct the airflow although I believe the OP arnis said something about if the temp is put in auto mode the recirc may be also......the manual doesn't really talk about that though.
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

Return to “Tips & Tricks”