Post Your Battery Degradation Results

drees said:

Evoforce said:

The 13-15 are a larger pack configuration compared to original 11-12.

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This is simply not true. The '13-15 LEAF modules are exactly the same size as the '11-12 LEAF modules. And they are lighter than the '13-15 LEAF modules.

Ignore the variance in SOC% when charging to "100%". It simply varies a decent amount, especially if you charge from above 80% to 100% - it won't get to the normal ~95% reported SOC. The LBC gets confused.

Instead of looking at the SOC%, just look at the pack voltage. If it's 393-394V at rest you're good and have 100% charge. Now, the '13+ LEAFs will charge to a slightly higher pack voltage than the '11-12 LEAFs - primarily because they will spend a decent amount of time topping off the pack where the '11-12 LEAFs cut off pretty quick once the charge rate gets down under 1000W or so, but the '13+ LEAFs will spend quite a bit of time pushing in a few hundred watts. As a result, the pack voltage will typically be about 1V higher than the earlier LEAFs.

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So you have gone this far... please explain the extra support bracket that has to be used on the 11-12 to accommodate the larger pack as I was told. I would be curious to hear your explanation. There have been rumblings that the battery energy density may have been changed in the 13+. I for one haven't really accepted that yet, but it could answer some anomalies. I would like you to name your source that the batteries haven't changed. Also, keep in mind, a change in energy density doesn't have to mean a VISABLE difference either.

Evoforce said:

So you have gone this far... please explain the extra support bracket that has to be used on the 11-12 to accommodate the larger pack as I was told.

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What extra bracket?

The pack bolts straight up into the car - no brackets needed. There's a harness adapter that's required and the underbody panels are slightly different, but that's it.

Evoforce said:

There have been rumblings that the battery energy density may have been changed in the 13+.

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Possibly, but not significant. If anything the extra energy comes from charging to a slightly higher voltage.

Anyway, getting way OT now.

drees said:

Evoforce said:

So you have gone this far... please explain the extra support bracket that has to be used on the 11-12 to accommodate the larger pack as I was told.

Click to expand...

What extra bracket?

The pack bolts straight up into the car - no brackets needed. There's a harness adapter that's required and the underbody panels are slightly different, but that's it.

Evoforce said:

There have been rumblings that the battery energy density may have been changed in the 13+.

Click to expand...

Possibly, but not significant. If anything the extra energy comes from charging to a slightly higher voltage.

Anyway, getting way OT now.

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Quantity 2 of these 740D0-3NF1A BRKT ASMY-BAT M

Bracket Assembly that all 2011-12 need to install a 2013-15 battery to accommodate pack difference.

Everything, is degrading what seems to be equally in the climate that I reside in. But others are swearing that 13+ are appearing to be more durable in ideal climates, and with some of the anomalies that are occurring with the 2015 lizard pack installs into 2011's, there may be a basis for their claim of less degradation. I am not sure what I believe yet and I was contrary to that thought previously, but after focusing on it, I am now not so sure in that conviction...

drees said:

The pack bolts straight up into the car - no brackets needed. There's a harness adapter that's required and the underbody panels are slightly different, but that's it...

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My understanding is that there is a bracket needed to adapt the 2013 and newer style of battery in a 2011/2012. The old packs were more difficult to handle because the cans needed to be strapped together and didn't hold together as a complete unit (I got a chance to read the service tech's training manual on battery replacement and the pictures show this clearly). I believe that Nissan fixed that with a redesign in the 2013 MY that makes the battery pack easier to handle as a complete unit. It was my impression that the $200 adapter needed to fit the new packs in older LEAFs had to do with this change in pack design. Not that I've ever seen one, so you may be right...

It's been awhile since I last posted here. Here's my latest info from LeafSpy:

2011 LEAF SL (2 bars lost)

AHr 51.378 (this has actually increased a tiny bit over the past couple of months)
SOH 78%
SOC Full charge, whatever that is anymore
Hx 59.92%
GIDs 208
390.88V

odo 20947 mi
7 QC & 1328 L1/L2

Looks like I'm getting close to my 9th bar dropping. When I got the car on September 1st it had 9 bars but did not have the P3227 update so I had that done immediately. The update raised my AHr to 50.80 from 42.94. I'm almost back to the same AHr after 5 months but this time my Hx is at 45.84% instead of 58.77%. Based on a lot of the other 8 bar cars, most of their Hx was in the 45% instead of the 58% when they lost their 9th bar.
I also noticed that once the weather in So Cal turned cold my AHr went up along with my Hx. So from November thru January I had almost zero changes.
I installed my level 2 charger a few weeks ago and I noticed that my numbers started dropping again even with the cold weather here.
If everything goes right, I hope to see my 9th bar drop this month and I can get my Lizzard battery installed before it gets hot again.

Sept 1 38,950 mi AHr 42.94 SOH 65% Hx 58.77%
Sept 2 38,950 mi AHr 50.80 SOH 65% Hx 58.58%
Oct 1 40,900 mi AHr 45.66 SOH 69% Hx 49.02%
Nov 1 43,183 mi AHr 44.31 SOH 67% Hx 46.58%
Dec 1 45,050 mi AHr 44.12 SOH 67% Hx 46.26%
Jan 1 45,990 mi AHr 44.32 SOH 67% Hx 46.59%
Feb 1 47,222 mi AHr 43.86 SOH 66% Hx 45.84%

You're right, you could be very close. I lost my 9th bar at 43.47 AHr and 45.20 Hx.

Cinnabar said:

Cinnabar said:

Cinnabar said:

Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:16 pm
I lost my first bar yesterday after 28 months and 35.7k miles. Mostly charge to 80%, charge overnight and at work using L2. 32 mile one way commute.

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And I lost my second bar on Monday, Aug 11, 2014. Close to 11 months after I lost the first. My mileage is now at 46.6K.

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I lost my third bar yesterday, July 4, 2015. Another 11 months between bar losses. My mileage is at 59.5K.

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My fourth bar is gone as of February 13, 2016. MY mileage is 66.5K, so only seven thousand between bars. It is getting to the point that range is a serious issue. I always need to charge to 100% to get about anywhere. I am using my Volt more and more as the public charging infrastructure is still sorely lacking.

Cinnabar said:

Cinnabar said:

Cinnabar said:

And I lost my second bar on Monday, Aug 11, 2014. Close to 11 months after I lost the first. My mileage is now at 46.6K.

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I lost my third bar yesterday, July 4, 2015. Another 11 months between bar losses. My mileage is at 59.5K.

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My fourth bar is gone as of February 13, 2016. MY mileage is 66.5K, so only seven thousand between bars. It is getting to the point that range is a serious issue. I always need to charge to 100% to get about anywhere. I am using my Volt more and more as the public charging infrastructure is still sorely lacking.

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I'm sorry you didn't make it to a free replacement.

drees said:

Ignore the variance in SOC% when charging to "100%". It simply varies a decent amount, especially if you charge from above 80% to 100% - it won't get to the normal ~95% reported SOC. The LBC gets confused.

Instead of looking at the SOC%, just look at the pack voltage. If it's 393-394V at rest you're good and have 100% charge. Now, the '13+ LEAFs will charge to a slightly higher pack voltage than the '11-12 LEAFs - primarily because they will spend a decent amount of time topping off the pack where the '11-12 LEAFs cut off pretty quick once the charge rate gets down under 1000W or so, but the '13+ LEAFs will spend quite a bit of time pushing in a few hundred watts. As a result, the pack voltage will typically be about 1V higher than the earlier LEAFs.

Click to expand...

This makes a lot of sense. My new (lizard) pack tops out @393.5 V, and I my "100% SOC" never gets much above 93%. However, I'm definitely getting range at least as good as when the car was new. :mrgreen:

True. 2014 Leaf maximum charging voltage is 396V.
Last 500Wh are very slow. Slower than 700W rate.
And even after it reaches absolute maximum it pauses for few minutes and tries again.
Multiple times. It may take 1-2 hours in total to get that 1%
This very very slow charging balances the cells. Most of them get to 4.13V limit.
At very cold temperatures (2 bars) charging from 80% to 100% might take 4-5 hours.
It will slow down at around 80-85% and not around 95% like usually.

Well I lost my 9th bar last month and my new traction battery has been ordered.

Sept 1 38,950 mi AHr 42.94 SOH 65% Hx 58.77%
Sept 2 38,950 mi AHr 50.80 SOH 65% Hx 58.58%
Oct 1 40,900 mi AHr 45.66 SOH 69% Hx 49.02%
Nov 1 43,183 mi AHr 44.31 SOH 67% Hx 46.58%
Dec 1 45,050 mi AHr 44.12 SOH 67% Hx 46.26%
Jan 1 45,990 mi AHr 44.32 SOH 67% Hx 46.59%
Feb 1 47,222 mi AHr 43.86 SOH 66% Hx 45.84%
Mar 1 48,389 mi AHr 42.92 SOH 65% Hx 44.30%

My 2012 Leaf still has 9 bars illuminated with theses stats:

Mar 25 2016 -- 55,450 mi AHr 42.79 SOH 64.58% Hx 44.08%

Based on other reports posted here it appears I'm in the range to lose that 9th bar and qualify for a warranty replacement battery. Or am I missing something?

cjs998

cjs998 said:

My 2012 Leaf still has 9 bars illuminated with theses stats:

Mar 25 2016 -- 55,450 mi AHr 42.79 SOH 64.58% Hx 44.08%

Based on other reports posted here it appears I'm in the range to lose that 9th bar and qualify for a warranty replacement battery. Or am I missing something?

cjs998

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I'd say so. In fact, I bet you lose that 9th bar as soon as the weather warms up (don't know where you live though...not in profile).

This Leaf operates in San Diego, CA. We had several periods of warm weather already in 2016. I was expecting to lose that 9th bar late last year but the S California "cold" weather during winter caused the battery degradation to flat line.

cjs998

cjs998 said:

My 2012 Leaf still has 9 bars illuminated with theses stats:

Mar 25 2016 -- 55,450 mi AHr 42.79 SOH 64.58% Hx 44.08%

Based on other reports posted here it appears I'm in the range to lose that 9th bar and qualify for a warranty replacement battery. Or am I missing something?

cjs998

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you are over 50K miles so not sure if they will give you battery for free?

NasGoreList said:

... you are over 50K miles so not sure if they will give you battery for free?

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The capacity warranty is five years 60,000 miles.

I lost my 10th bar today at 30,534 miles. Just fired it up this morning and bar 10 was dark.
AHr = 47.47
SOH = 72%
Hx = 51.74%
I believe I have until May 2017 for bar 9 to go away.
Should I let Nissan know that I lost bar 10?

PowayDon said:

I lost my 10th bar today at 30,534 miles. Just fired it up this morning and bar 10 was dark.
AHr = 47.47
SOH = 72%
Hx = 51.74%
I believe I have until May 2017 for bar 9 to go away.
Should I let Nissan know that I lost bar 10?

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No, only when you get to 8 bars showing.

Is there someone in San Diego that would let me use their LEAF Spy ODB device for a few minutes to get a quick AHr reading this weekend?

The first device I ordered turned out to be a v2.1 instead of v1.5 and isn't compatible with Leaf Spy. The second device I ordered was lost in the mail. I'm in the process of getting a 3rd device but I am quickly running out of time on my battery warranty as I will reach the 5 year point on May 3rd.

I have been "exercising" my battery as much as possible and would love to see where I am in relation to the 8 bar loss range. I could meet you at a time/place of your convenience any time this weekend (Friday, Saturday, or Sunday).

Please PM me if anyone is available to help. Thanks!!!