Amended Settlement in Klee v. Nissan

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Evoforce said:
... I tried my hardest to get the opt in paperwork of which they failed to send after two attempts. I didn't sweat it that hard at the time, because I felt I would automatically be opted in anyway, because my vehicles as far as I knew, had not been opted out. ...
The court only provided an Opt In option to those that previously Opted Out of the class after the revised tentative settlement was agreed upon following mediation.

I'm not dismissing what you have said.
I just think you have received some inaccurate and inconsistent information from the people you have been talking to at the court.
 
["TimLee"]
Evoforce said:
... I tried my hardest to get the opt in paperwork of which they failed to send after two attempts. I didn't sweat it that hard at the time, because I felt I would automatically be opted in anyway, because my vehicles as far as I knew, had not been opted out. ...
The court only provided an Opt In option to those that previously Opted Out of the class after the revised tentative settlement was agreed upon following mediation.

I'm not dismissing what you have said.
I just think you have received some inaccurate and inconsistent information from the people you have been talking to at the court.[/quote]

Exactly! I tried to tell them that I didn't think I had to fill out any paperwork because the suit says I would automatically be a part of the class unless I opted out. I am sure the two previous owners did not opt out. But... they insisted on sending me paperwork. After waiting a period of time and it didn't arrived I called them back and they said supposedly resent me more which also never arrived. However the had all of my pertinent info already at that point.
 
Ok, I received a call from the settlement administrators today. Here is what I was told. My two cars will not receive the benefit of the charge cards or checks. Nissan will warranty my battery to 60 months or 60,000 miles. But my warranty, is for the repair of the battery to nine bars. I told them that I thought they were wrong and that Nissan has already been summarily changing out the warranty batteries for new. They insisted that if I was not an owner who was sent a packet in September 2013, my cars do not qualify for the lizard battery. I still insisted that they were wrong so they said I could write to Nissan Leaf Settlement Administrator P.O. Box 43191 Providence Rhode Island 02940-3191.

This is too frustrating! I can't believe it!! Can they be that screwed up or are a group of people in my same scenario that screwed? I told them way back when, that I did not believe that I had to sign opt in papers because my cars were never opted out and by taking no action I should automatically be part of the class. They insisted on sending me paperwork anyway. No paperwork ever arrived and a they said they would resend. Again, no paperwork. So, myself not being one of the original roughly 19 thousand mailed in 2013 makes me not part of the class. Something is not right here... Are they stupidly thinking my cars were originally opted out and I didn't get the opt back in paperwork to them? I already explained this was not the case... I could bite through a nail right now. I so far can't get through to anyone that is able to directly answer my questions. Only recited answers back to posed questions of previous phone calls. It takes over a week for them to get a response back each time.
 
Evoforce said:
I told them that I thought they were wrong and that Nissan has already been summarily changing out the warranty batteries for new. They insisted that if I was not an owner who was sent a packet in September 2013, my cars do not qualify for the lizard battery..

I think you are mixing the law and business practice.

The court is right. Nissan are only *legally required* to repair up to 9 bars.

The business practice Nissan have demonstrated to date is that they replace with new Lizard batteries. They could at any moment start repairing to 9 bars only and still comply with the law. The fact that Nissan are exceeding their legal requirement does NOT mean the court are wrong, or anyone here is wrong. It is what it is.

You need to separate in your mind the legal minimum requirement and the actual business practice.

Does this mean you will get a brand new lizard battery under warranty if your car drops to 8 bars inside 5 years/60,000 miles? Maybe, maybe not.
 
JPWhite said:
Evoforce said:
I told them that I thought they were wrong and that Nissan has already been summarily changing out the warranty batteries for new. They insisted that if I was not an owner who was sent a packet in September 2013, my cars do not qualify for the lizard battery..

I think you are mixing the law and business practice.

The court is right. Nissan are only *legally required* to repair up to 9 bars.

The business practice Nissan have demonstrated to date is that they replace with new Lizard batteries. They could at any moment start repairing to 9 bars only and still comply with the law. The fact that Nissan are exceeding their legal requirement does NOT mean the court are wrong, or anyone here is wrong. It is what it is.

You need to separate in your mind the legal minimum requirement and the actual business practice.

Does this mean you will get a brand new lizard battery under warranty if your car drops to 8 bars inside 5 years/60,000 miles? Maybe, maybe not.

The court approved settlement is what is legally required now. What Nissan did or did not do in the past is a moot point. What the previously agreed settlement required is now a moot point. The only way to know what is legally required now is to read the settlement:
http://classaction.kccllc.net/content.aspx?c=5619&sh=1

TimLee has stated that he has read the settlement, so he might be able to add additional information I've overlooked, as could others who have read it. I have read parts of the settlement, but will quote the applicable sections.

1) Definitions All terms used in this Amendment shall have the same defined meanings as set forth in 1 - 26 of the Settlement Agreement unless modified below. Section 8 defines the referenced "Settlement Agreement" as the Settlement Agreement entered into by the Parties on July 8, 2013, including all exhibits attached to it.

The previous Settlement Agreement (7/8/13) definitions start on page 3 of 61. On that same page, 2) "Class Vehicle(s) means 2011-2012 model year Nissan LEAF vehicles sold or leased in the United States, including Puerto Rico.

That definition (#2 Class Vehicle(s)) was not changed in the final settlement. Therefore, while I must state that I am not an attorney, and this is not legal advice, it seems clear to me that the Settlement Agreement covers all 2011 - 2012 Nissan LEAF vehicles, unless the owner of a LEAF has opted out.

So when Evoforce contacts the court, I hope they will state where in the Settlement Agreement it distinguishes between vehicles based on original ownership.

Now, in my opinion it seems clear to me that JPWhite is also completely incorrect, based on the court approved Settlement Agreement.

Quoting from the (Final Court Approved) Settlement Agreement Page 2:
"WHEREAS, under the Settlement Term Sheet, the new Lithium-ion Battery Capacity Coverage was to cover any repairs or replacement needed to return battery capacity to a level of nine remaining bars on the vehicle's battery capacity level gauge.

Quoting from the (Final Court Approved) Settlement Agreement Page 2:
"WHEREAS, Plaintiffs and NNA believe the Settlement Agreement preliminary approved by the court is fair, adequate, and reasonable, and that the objections to the Settlement Agreement were unfounded and incorrect, but nevertheless continued discussions in an effort to address concerns raised by the objectors."

Page 2 states that both parties agreed to mediation to address the objections to the Settlement Agreement preliminary.

On Page 2 it states that Objector Kozinski appeared in person, and Objector Vo by phone.

Quoting the important part on Page 3:
"WHEREAS, because Nissan desires to further enhance customer satisfaction
n to those who were early adopters of electric vehicle technology, and the Parties desire to add value for the Class and address concerns raised by objectors, the Parties agreed to modify the Settlement Agreement, conditioned upon final approval of the Amended Settlement, as follows: "

On Page 4:
ADDITIONAL RELIEF TO SETTLEMENT CLASS MEMBERS
9. The term "Lithium-ion Battery Capacity Coverage" as used in 8 of the Settlement Agreement is revised to mean "new coverage, added to and made a part of the 2011 and 2012 Nissan New Electric Vehicle Limited Warranty, against capacity loss below nine bars of capacity , as shown on the vehicle's battery capacity level gauge, for a period of 60 months or 60,000 miles, whichever occurs first. If a Nissan dealer confirms capacity below nine bars as shown on the vehicle's battery capacity level gauge within the warranty period, NNA will replace the vehicle's battery. (bold added) The replacement battery will be the 24kWh lithium-ion battery that is currently used in the 2015 model year LEAF (or the most current model year 24kWh lithium-ion battery at the time of replacement)."

And, once again, there is no reference to an original owner, only an addition to the 2011 and 2012 Nissan New Electric Vehicle Limited Warranty.

And finally, it is obvious that without the objections of Mr. Kozinski and Mr. Vo, this additional requirement to replace the vehicle's battery, instead of restore it to nine capacity bars, would never have happened.
 
sub3marathonman said:
JPWhite said:
Evoforce said:
I told them that I thought they were wrong and that Nissan has already been summarily changing out the warranty batteries for new. They insisted that if I was not an owner who was sent a packet in September 2013, my cars do not qualify for the lizard battery..

I think you are mixing the law and business practice.

The court is right. Nissan are only *legally required* to repair up to 9 bars.

The business practice Nissan have demonstrated to date is that they replace with new Lizard batteries. They could at any moment start repairing to 9 bars only and still comply with the law. The fact that Nissan are exceeding their legal requirement does NOT mean the court are wrong, or anyone here is wrong. It is what it is.

You need to separate in your mind the legal minimum requirement and the actual business practice.

Does this mean you will get a brand new lizard battery under warranty if your car drops to 8 bars inside 5 years/60,000 miles? Maybe, maybe not.

The court approved settlement is what is legally required now. What Nissan did or did not do in the past is a moot point. What the previously agreed settlement required is now a moot point. The only way to know what is legally required now is to read the settlement:
http://classaction.kccllc.net/content.aspx?c=5619&sh=1

TimLee has stated that he has read the settlement, so he might be able to add additional information I've overlooked, as could others who have read it. I have read parts of the settlement, but will quote the applicable sections.

1) Definitions All terms used in this Amendment shall have the same defined meanings as set forth in 1 - 26 of the Settlement Agreement unless modified below. Section 8 defines the referenced "Settlement Agreement" as the Settlement Agreement entered into by the Parties on July 8, 2013, including all exhibits attached to it.

The previous Settlement Agreement (7/8/13) definitions start on page 3 of 61. On that same page, 2) "Class Vehicle(s) means 2011-2012 model year Nissan LEAF vehicles sold or leased in the United States, including Puerto Rico.

That definition (#2 Class Vehicle(s)) was not changed in the final settlement. Therefore, while I must state that I am not an attorney, and this is not legal advice, it seems clear to me that the Settlement Agreement covers all 2011 - 2012 Nissan LEAF vehicles, unless the owner of a LEAF has opted out.

So when Evoforce contacts the court, I hope they will state where in the Settlement Agreement it distinguishes between vehicles based on original ownership.

Now, in my opinion it seems clear to me that JPWhite is also completely incorrect, based on the court approved Settlement Agreement.

Quoting from the (Final Court Approved) Settlement Agreement Page 2:
"WHEREAS, under the Settlement Term Sheet, the new Lithium-ion Battery Capacity Coverage was to cover any repairs or replacement needed to return battery capacity to a level of nine remaining bars on the vehicle's battery capacity level gauge.

Quoting from the (Final Court Approved) Settlement Agreement Page 2:
"WHEREAS, Plaintiffs and NNA believe the Settlement Agreement preliminary approved by the court is fair, adequate, and reasonable, and that the objections to the Settlement Agreement were unfounded and incorrect, but nevertheless continued discussions in an effort to address concerns raised by the objectors."

Page 2 states that both parties agreed to mediation to address the objections to the Settlement Agreement preliminary.

On Page 2 it states that Objector Kozinski appeared in person, and Objector Vo by phone.

Quoting the important part on Page 3:
"WHEREAS, because Nissan desires to further enhance customer satisfaction
n to those who were early adopters of electric vehicle technology, and the Parties desire to add value for the Class and address concerns raised by objectors, the Parties agreed to modify the Settlement Agreement, conditioned upon final approval of the Amended Settlement, as follows: "

On Page 4:
ADDITIONAL RELIEF TO SETTLEMENT CLASS MEMBERS
9. The term "Lithium-ion Battery Capacity Coverage" as used in 8 of the Settlement Agreement is revised to mean "new coverage, added to and made a part of the 2011 and 2012 Nissan New Electric Vehicle Limited Warranty, against capacity loss below nine bars of capacity , as shown on the vehicle's battery capacity level gauge, for a period of 60 months or 60,000 miles, whichever occurs first. If a Nissan dealer confirms capacity below nine bars as shown on the vehicle's battery capacity level gauge within the warranty period, NNA will replace the vehicle's battery. (bold added) The replacement battery will be the 24kWh lithium-ion battery that is currently used in the 2015 model year LEAF (or the most current model year 24kWh lithium-ion battery at the time of replacement)."

And, once again, there is no reference to an original owner, only an addition to the 2011 and 2012 Nissan New Electric Vehicle Limited Warranty.

And finally, it is obvious that without the objections of Mr. Kozinski and Mr. Vo, this additional requirement to replace the vehicle's battery, instead of restore it to nine capacity bars, would never have happened.

Yes, I have read all of the documents and believe I have an understanding of them. Nissan is to replace all of the batteries for 2011-2012 that fall to eight bars within the warranty of 5years/60,000 miles with the exception of the opt out cars. Easy right? Would be but... It is not what the settlement administrators are stating. My previous posts parrot what they are saying. Read page 6 line 26 of the final settlement agreement dated 7/7/2015. Only original or former owners/lessors (19,000ish) mailed the packet in 2013 are a part of the class. That is how they defined the class. That is how they separate me and others like me from benefit. Will they replace my battery with a new one because they previously have been? I think so and hope so. The answer is (maybe) if they still feel like it...
 
Evoforce said:
... Read page 6 line 26 of the final settlement agreement dated 7/7/2015. Only original or former owners/lessors (19,000ish) mailed the packet in 2013 are a part of the class. That is how they defined the class. That is how they separate me and others like me from benefit. Will they replace my battery with a new one because they previously have been? I think so and hope so. The answer is (maybe) if they still feel like it...
Interesting.

But if that is correct, what they have been telling you that you are only covered for a replacement battery of 9 bars or more makes no sense.

The 2011 and 2012 had no original capacity warranty.

The final settlement with the class is for new 2015 or later battery (which does raise some interesting questions legally for those in the class that got early non-2015 replacements, maybe they will get those heat resistant battery replacement coupons after all).

The legal requirement for people that were not in the class having not owned or leased a 2011 or 2012 when the original class action norification was sent might be NOTHING :eek: :( :shock:
Although people that owned and were in the class and then sold to someone, the warranty under typical practice for warranty coverage would pass to the buyer.
And that usually also applies to previously leased vehicles.

Why do you keep asking this question :?:

You got one replacement already that Nissan might not have had to do legally.

Are you wanting to prove they should not cover the second one :shock: :?:
 
If the battery has already been replaced, why should you care?

Evoforce said:
I didn't get the replacement. I bought the car from the original owner who already had the replacement done and I paid more for the car based on that fact.
 
JPWhite said:
sub3marathonman said:
I was also wondering, from a legal standpoint now after this settlement, is it an "If you don't ask we won't tell" situation? Or is Nissan legally required, something similar to a safety recall, to notify people if they qualify for the warranty and battery replacement when they see the results of the annual battery test?

Even if you ask you may not get a correct response.

I took my 2011 SL to the dealer for the 75,000 mile service interval this week. I asked them to provide me with a quote on a new battery since completing my commute has become challenging and will only get worse as we head into winter. The adviser said they had just replaced their first LEAF battery the week before, the vehicle was brand new. I felt better that I wouldn't be their first.

The service adviser responded to my request for a quote and said that since I had purchased an extended warranty to 100,000 miles I was covered for any failures of the battery. I responded that since it was degraded I had already passed the 60,000 capacity warranty. No your covered to 100,000 miles was the response. I stopped the argument and they agreed to test the battery and advise me accordingly. On picking up the car I was advised that if I waited until the 4th capacity bar went out I'd get a new battery under warranty. I did not receive a quote. The 4th capacity bar probably won't go out this winter and I'm still left without a quote for replacement.

I'll contact another dealer to get my quote.

Dealers don't know but a fraction of what we do about the capacity warranty (unless they are in Arizona or South Cal). Ask all you like, you may not get a good response.

I like your optimism, but remember the warranty replacement pack would be paid for by Nissan Corporate. I expect that when the dealership called to get authorization for the $5500 pack replacement, Nissan would explain their error.
 
BudRaymond said:
I like your optimism said:
The optimism isn't mine, it's the dealers. I went looking for a quote not a free battery.

i agree they will find out the truth when the time comes and call for approval. I may have already replaced via another dealer before that can happen.
 
So... Here is a summary. If you are a member of the class (one of the 19,000ish original owners/lessors of a 2011-2012 Nissan Leaf who were sent a packet in September 2013 and did not opt out) you will be entitled to a charge card or a $50 check and a warranty replacement of your traction battery if your car is at 8 capacity bars (or lower) within 60 months/60,000 miles. A new 24Kw 2015 or latest equivalent battery will be supplied.

If you are not a member of the class (someone who didn't receive a packet September 2013 and purchased/leased their 2011-2012 after September 2013) you are not considered a class member and receive no benefit of this lawsuit. However, Nissan publicly announced a battery capacity warranty of 60 months/60,000 miles that would repair vehicles to a minimum of 9 bar status (sole and separate of this lawsuit) to give customers satisfaction. This is the information that the Court Settlement Administration is giving to Leaf owners.

That said, for all warranties since the 2015 improved chemistry battery (lizard) that was released in the last quarter of 2014, Nissan as a business practice, has up to this point been replacing all warranty claims with new replacement (lizard) battery. Since this suit is freshly settled, we can only hope that they will continue to give better customer satisfaction, by continuing to replace with new batteries and not repair to a minimum of 9 bars.

On a personal note... I have a car that is on the cusp of needing a warranty settlement. I am an owner that purchased two 2011 Leaf's after September 2013. I am excluded from the class of Klee versus Nissan. The lawsuit occurred because people were not satisfied with the lack of warranty that Nissan did not put fourth. Nissan would only risk another lawsuit, from owners in my situation, if they were to actually revert back to repairing substandard chemistry batteries and only guaranteeing to 9 bar capacity. Their business practice, for at least a year, has been to replace all warranty eligible cars with new (lizard) batteries rather than repair battery traction packs. Their legal obligation is to repair for those of us who are not class members.

Now comes the decision making process for people in my situation. Will Nissan continue with their business practice? This suit is freshly settled, time will tell...

In tracking the degradation on my 9 bar car, it appears that it will qualify for a warranty months before my warranty expires. I was going to drive this vehicle close to expiration just to save starting on the next. But with this development, as soon as it qualifies, it will be going for hopefully new replacement because we all know that business practices can change over time...

On a side note, My lizard car and my 9 bar car appear to be degrading at he same rate here in Arizona. Since my 9 bar car will soon be 8 bar car, I will not be able to track this much longer. Let us hope that the lizard is (truly) better over time. Please note that we really like our cars but range and battery degradation are major concerns.
 
Evoforce said:
... The lawsuit occurred because people were not satisfied with the warranty that Nissan put fourth. ...
Incorrect.

The lawsuit was filed long before Nissan offered any capacity warranty.

The Nissan repair to 9 bars capacity warranty was only given out as their first negotiated settlement of the class action.
 
TimLee said:
Evoforce said:
... The lawsuit occurred because people were not satisfied with the warranty that Nissan put fourth. ...
Incorrect.

The lawsuit was filed long before Nissan offered any capacity warranty.

The Nissan repair to 9 bars capacity warranty was only given out as their first negotiated settlement of the class action.

Or I could have worded it as lack of warranty at first...


Yes, but they offered up the warranty to quell. And whether you want to call it a warranty or a business practice that is what the courts says they are doing. So if you have any hard facts to the contrary as to what the courts are now saying, that would be more productive than how you are trying to appear to discredit.
 
Evoforce said:
TimLee said:
Evoforce said:
... The lawsuit occurred because people were not satisfied with the warranty that Nissan put fourth. ...
Incorrect.

The lawsuit was filed long before Nissan offered any capacity warranty.

The Nissan repair to 9 bars capacity warranty was only given out as their first negotiated settlement of the class action.

Or I could have worded it as lack of warranty at first...


Yes, but they offered up the warranty to quell. And whether you want to call it a warranty or a business practice that is what the courts says they are doing. So if you have any hard facts to the contrary as to what the courts are now saying, that would be more productive than how you are trying to appear to discredit.

Had the batteries turned out to be 'bullet proof'. No lawsuits would have been filed over inadequate warranty.

The issue isn't the warranty, the issue is the batteries are not suitable for purpose. Had Nissan taken a different and more responsive approach to those 2011/12 owners (tucking them into bed at night as Jack Ricard suggested) there would have been no lawsuit either.

Poor product + poor customer service = lawsuit.

Warranties are not created to protect owners, but to protect future sales in the light of uncertainty, warranted or otherwise.
 
Evoforce said:
... So if you have any hard facts to the contrary as to what the courts are now saying, that would be more productive than how you are trying to appear to discredit.
Your summary of what the court has told you was excellent and informative.

I am not attempting to discredit it, only disagree with the one sentence that was completely inaccurate.

Once Nissan saw that their defective product was becoming a disaster, and that selling such product with zero capacity warranty was untenable, and in light of the lawsuit they needed to settle as cheaply as possible; they switched to offering a pathetic repair to nine bars capacity warranty.

Lose 33.75% of your capacity, they repair to nine bars.
72.5% of original capacity.

Only the class get replacement as long as they did not Opt Out or Opted Back In.
Everyone else is only warranted for nine bar repair.
Including all the 2013 forward LEAFs.
 
TimLee said:
Evoforce said:
... So if you have any hard facts to the contrary as to what the courts are now saying, that would be more productive ...


Your summary of what the court has told you was excellent and informative.

...

Only the class get replacement as long as they did not Opt Out or Opted Back In.
Everyone else is only warranted for nine bar repair.
Including all the 2013 forward LEAFs.

OK, I'm hoping that TimLee or somebody will explain again, so maybe I can understand it. Because I keep thinking "the class" applies to vehicles, not owners, whether original purchasers or not.

Evoforce purchased a 2011 LEAF, as a used car after 9/2013. No settlement had been approved at that time. The proposed, and later adopted language, as I understand it, is "Class Vehicle(s) means 2011-2012 model year Nissan LEAF vehicles sold or leased in the United States, including Puerto Rico. " So even if I was thinking of purchasing a used 2011 or 2012 model year LEAF in 9/2013, I would think the vehicle was a "Class Vehicle." So why is Evoforce's LEAF not a "Class Vehicle?" Is there specific language excluding those LEAFs? The class settlement, as far as I can tell, applies to the "Class Vehicles," with further proof being the dreaded opt out code B0133 that seems to follow a vehicle, not an owner. If Evoforce so chooses to answer, is his 9-bar LEAF one of the opted-out LEAFs with the B0133 code?

Here is a thread about the B0133 code (I haven't read all entries): http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=17045

Then, it is stated that the now approved settlement is "an addition to the 2011 and 2012 Nissan New Electric Vehicle Limited Warranty." So if that is true, why doesn't that warranty apply to all 2011 and 2012 LEAFs, used or original owners? It doesn't seem possible, but is the "Nissan New Electric Vehicle Limited Warranty" not transferable to the next owner? Is this a new separate warranty that really isn't a supplement to the original warranty, as printed in the Warranty Information Booklet given at the time of purchase back in 2011 and 2012?

And finally, if Evoforce or anybody else does experience this situation, wouldn't their option be to sue Nissan themselves? Wouldn't Nissan thus find themselves back in a similar quandary? Wouldn't it cost Nissan more to defend Evoforce's lawsuit than to just live up to the settlement? And in the end, isn't it very possible that Nissan would lose such a lawsuit?
 
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