cwerdna
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Re: 2013 Leaf - Dead 12-Volt Battery every 2 Weeks

Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:08 pm

BrockWI wrote:I could just be a bad 12v battery, which would be an easier fix :)

Indeed. We'll see what the dealer says tomorrow.

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

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Nubo
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Re: 2013 Leaf - Dead 12-Volt Battery every 2 Weeks

Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:52 pm

RegGuheert wrote:
Nubo wrote:Or, at least give the driver an option to "jump charge" the 12V with the DC/DC converter. The equipment is right there in the car; why strand someone?
It's possible that at 10 V or below the car is not able to communicate sufficiently over the CANBus to make that happen.

Edit: OTOH, I cannot think of a scenario in which you would want to charge the 12-V battery to below 12.7 V.

OTOOH, if there is a cell shorted, then perhaps the car detected that and quit charging rather than cooking the other five cells.


The 12V battery is 19th century tech. We don't need no steenkin CAN bus :lol:

The EV-1 had an emergency self-jump, if I'm not mistaken.

Image
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

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Nubo
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Re: 2013 Leaf - Dead 12-Volt Battery every 2 Weeks

Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:05 pm

BrockWI wrote:I could just be a bad 12v battery, which would be an easier fix :)


Indeed. I spent a few weeks recently trying to "pinpoint" what I thought must surely be a battery drain. Turned out to be a failed battery that was fooling me because it would charge to 12.8v and retain most of it if it sat overnight unattached to the vehicle, but was turning up low on Monday mornings. But I couldn't find a drain and even tried a thermal camera looking for "hot spots", to no avail. And finally I picked up a replacement battery while chiding myself for taking the lazy/inept mechanic's way out. :roll: Lo and behold, problem fixed.

When encountering a paradox, question your assumptions. I was working on another project that gave me a way to put a reasonable load test on the old battery and I quickly discovered its 12.8V was a sham. It evaporated under even a modest load.

Lesson learned: always load-test a questionable battery.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

cwerdna
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Re: 2013 Leaf - Dead 12-Volt Battery every 2 Weeks

Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:25 am

cwerdna wrote:
BrockWI wrote:I could just be a bad 12v battery, which would be an easier fix :)

Indeed. We'll see what the dealer says tomorrow.

Picked up the car from the dealer this morning. (Couldn’t yesterday due to time and transportation issues. Easier to do it today.) Receipt says they load tested the 12 volt and it failed. So, they replaced it. Hope that’s all that was wrong.

It was all covered under warranty. (Car’s in service date was ~6/22/13, IIRC and I’m almost at 27K miles.)

And, they applied the brake TSB (NTB14-017) I requested.

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

ElectricEddy
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Re: 2013 Leaf - Dead 12-Volt Battery every 2 Weeks

Wed Oct 14, 2015 2:49 pm

cwerdna wrote:
cwerdna wrote:
BrockWI wrote:I could just be a bad 12v battery, which would be an easier fix :)

Indeed. We'll see what the dealer says tomorrow.

Picked up the car from the dealer this morning. (Couldn’t yesterday due to time and transportation issues. Easier to do it today.) Receipt says they load tested the 12 volt and it failed. So, they replaced it. Hope that’s all that was wrong.

It was all covered under warranty. (Car’s in service date was ~6/22/13, IIRC and I’m almost at 27K miles.)

And, they applied the brake TSB (NTB14-017) I requested.

I was thinking of getting that done too, but I thought the programming change might cut down regen. I notice in the TSB several steps during the reprogramming Consult requests verification of the battery to be between 12V and 15.5V so probably best to have this done with a new one installed.
Pearl White Sl
mfd date 09/16

cwerdna
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Re: 2013 Leaf - Dead 12-Volt Battery every 2 Weeks

Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:02 pm

^^^^
I hadn't noticed any reduction in regen after having NTB14-017 applied on my previous '13 Leaf SV. The brake action/behavior at low speeds was MUCH improved over the unpredictable (to me) herky/jerkiness.

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

69800
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Leaf Number: 16583
Location: North Idaho

Re: 2013 Leaf - Dead 12-Volt Battery every 2 Weeks

Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:25 pm

I am starting to lean toward the $99 L-ion ... It says this on amazon.

IMPORTANT MAINTENANCE INFORMATION
These batteries only need charging if they drop below 50%, they have a built-in meter that will tell you the health of the battery with led lights. Battery Tender has some chargers that will work fine with this battery. HOWEVER, you may NOT use a charger/tender if it has an automatic "desulfation mode",

Evidently these batteries can sit at a slightly discharged state forever which is what the leaf does. And at that price. You may not ever have to charge it but I would check it once a month to see what it is doing.
2012 SV Delivered Jan 2012
DOM 10/11 Sequence 16583
28000 miles. Never updated.
Leaf Spy Pro Ah-60.09/ SOH-91%/Hx-89.61

69800
Posts: 143
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2011 2:21 pm
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Location: North Idaho

Re: 2013 Leaf - Dead 12-Volt Battery every 2 Weeks

Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:27 pm

2012 SV Delivered Jan 2012
DOM 10/11 Sequence 16583
28000 miles. Never updated.
Leaf Spy Pro Ah-60.09/ SOH-91%/Hx-89.61

GerryAZ
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Re: 2013 Leaf - Dead 12-Volt Battery every 2 Weeks

Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:52 pm

69800,

Two issues I would be concerned about:

I was going to buy a similar battery for one of my motorcycles a few months ago from the battery specialty shop where I buy all of my batteries. The sales representative told me they quit selling lithium batteries for motorcycles because they had too many problems with them. Apparently, the built-in BMS did not do a good job of keeping the cells balanced so the batteries failed prematurely.

The second issue Is that these batteries have high cold cranking ampere ratings, but not much reserve capacity. This means they will start a motorcycle engine fine, but will not support low discharge currents for long periods of time (cannot leave parking lights on). Since the Leaf has significant residual loads, the small lithium battery may discharge too much before the automatic charging cycle if the Leaf is parked for an extended period of time.

Gerry
Gerry
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LeftieBiker
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Re: 2013 Leaf - Dead 12-Volt Battery every 2 Weeks

Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:37 pm

In the world of two-wheeled EVs, the BMS on the packs is considered to be a double-edged sword: it keeps them balanced and can protect them, but it is also usually the BMS that fails and kills the pack...
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

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