Help Please - Need Leaf Spy Target Values for New 2013

Hello.

On Saturday, I hope to use the Leaf Spy app to assess the battery on a New 2013 that I'm traveling to look at. I'd like to have a benchmark to compare the results from the prospective vehicle. If possible, please post the Leaf Spy data points that are the most critical, the target value for a new / like new battery, and the value that would be a red flag for various data points.

Thanks,
Gary

In my case, "new" meant 284 - 283 Gids, the amp hour reading was 67.36. I wouldn't worry much about the SOH and HX, but they would be about 100 each new. I would note that the odometer reading is the same on both the dash and LeafSpy. Those are the criticals...

Thanks Mottyski82 - very helpful!
Gary

I got my (new) 2013 seven months ago. I didn't have Leaf Spy until I had it 4 months. In August the GIDs were averaging low 270s and AHr was around 63. It's only in the last month (after putting 5300 miles on it) that I've been consistently getting GIDs in the low 280s and AHr > 65 (e.g., "new" like values). Oddly enough, this has happened as the temp dropped.

When you look at the car, do check out the sticker on the drivers door frame to find the date of manufacture.

This will be a big problem for you, since the new, good battery readings for the 2013 MY Leafs seem to fall into two groups, as you have seen from the above posts. If you have one with the high readings, you are fine. Problem is, if the one you are evaluating is one of those with about 61AHr capacity when new, you have no way of telling for sure if it is a degraded battery or one of those that measures low, but is actually just fine. If that is the case, the only way to tell for sure is a range test, driving the car from 100% charge down to turtle. This takes time and planning, not much fun.

The good news is that the 2013 batteries seem to be holding up very well, with very few reports of battery degradation. As long as the car was kept out of the really hot areas previously, the battery should be fine.

jlv said:

I got my (new) 2013 seven months ago. I didn't have Leaf Spy until I had it 4 months. In August the GIDs were averaging low 270s and AHr was around 63. It's only in the last month (after putting 5300 miles on it) that I've been consistently getting GIDs in the low 280s and AHr > 65 (e.g., "new" like values). Oddly enough, this has happened as the temp dropped.

When you look at the car, do check out the sticker on the drivers door frame to find the date of manufacture.

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So it sounds like these batteries have some resiliency after sitting, which I suppose is a good thing, but it makes it difficult to evaluate a battery because you can't account for possible improved numbers once charging cycles begin. Based on the VIN, I'm pretty sure this car was a Dec. 2013 build.

Were the Dec. 2013 cars built in Japan or Tenn.? Is there a preferred level of charge that I should ask the dealership to have the car at when I use Leaf Spy?

Gary

brg2290 said:

jlv said:

Were the Dec. 2013 cars built in Japan or Tenn.? Is there a preferred level of charge that I should ask the dealership to have the car at when I use Leaf Spy?

Gary

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I'm pretty sure all the 2013 Leafs were built in Smyrna, Tenn. I have 2, both built in May 2013. From the reports, most of the "low measured capacity, but normal range Leafs" built in 2013 were in the earlier part of the year, before July. So if yours was built in Dec 2013, it's new values should be in the high Gid/High AHr capacity group.

stjohnh said:

I'm pretty sure all the 2013 Leafs were built in Smyrna, Tenn. I have 2, both built in May 2013. From the reports, most of the "low measured capacity, but normal range Leafs" built in 2013 were in the earlier part of the year, before July. So if yours was built in Dec 2013, it's new values should be in the high Gid/High AHr capacity group.

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Except mine was built in Dec 2013.

Mine is a MY2013. Leased in Dec 2013, built in TN in Oct 2013. Initial values two weeks after lease was max GIDS 264 and max Ahr 61.61 and Hx 94.35. All values peaked between 2500 miles and 5000 miles from Jan to March, GIDS 283, Ahr 65.6 and Hx 100.38.

Thanks, that's nice to see as it matches what I've seen (on my car build just a few months after yours). What were the values like at the end of summer and now?

I picked up my Leaf (manufactured 4/13) in July 2013 and have been tracking Ahr since Sept 2013. I started around 60-61 and am now in the 58-59 region after a year and change. I live in downstate NY so summer avg hi temp is 80's, winter average hi temp is right around freezing. Here is the data I have:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HhaOjMdHGDm2EbDt5yHog9rMALddIIQzEhlh6Dpb35A/edit#gid=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

michapok said:

I picked up my Leaf (manufactured 4/13) in July 2013 and have been tracking Ahr since Sept 2013. I started around 60-61 and am now in the 58-59 region after a year and change. I live in downstate NY so summer avg hi temp is 80's, winter average hi temp is right around freezing. Here is the data I have:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HhaOjMdHGDm2EbDt5yHog9rMALddIIQzEhlh6Dpb35A/edit#gid=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Thanks to all who shared their data. I'm making the trip this morning to plug into my prospective purchase.

michapok - the graph is a wellspring of information, and the values you've recorded are lower than others are reporting. If I see similar values, I may be concerned enough to decline the opportunity to purchase.

Gary

Michapok's data is indeed great. It definitely appears that Michapok has the lower Ah version compared to some that show higher numbers on Ah capacity and Gids. I think the 2013s which show lower numbers when new are just showing different numbers due to the electrolyte tweak done for the 2013 MY... I do not have any charts or graphs to share, but I can agree with Michapok's data to suggest that about 10k worth of driving will bring the car's battery capacity down about 2 - 3 Ah per 12 month period. In my case, I was down about 2 Ah in the first year with about 10k miles on the odometer.
Capacity loss in the North is based primarily on time. The first calendar year sees the fastest capacity loss. The limited number of days where the temperature is 85 degrees and higher is a secondary and lesser degradation issue.
On the note about buy or lease... I actually kick myself for not leasing because I didn't understand the tax incentive at the time. I could have gotten $7,000 off on the lease, but since I wanted to buy (knowing that the car company could not legally come and take my car away to be crushed) I did not pay enough in taxes to claim the full $7500, and so I missed out on about half of the Federal "credit". .... Go figure that I thought it was the same principal as the first-time homebuyer tax credit... Oh well, you live and learn... It's only money.

Hope all this helped. Enjoy the LEAF!

Well, looks like I won't be making the drive to check out the 2013 today after all. Turns out the the ELM327 that I purchased from ebay (from seller i.d. "l.g. brother"), advertised as a V1.5, actually is a version 2.1, and it does not play well with the Leaf Spy. I found this out at 5 am this morning when I took the newly purchased Android phone, the newly loaded Leaf Spy app. and the newly acquired ELM327 out to my 2012 Leaf to do a familiarization before leaving for the 3 hour drive to assess the prospective purchase. Needless to say, I'm really glad that I didn't discover the incompatibility after making the drive. Maybe a blessing in disguise - it's raining hard in the lowlands with snow in the two mountain passes I will need to negotiate.

Gary

to get a true evaluation, the car should be fully charged and balanced (wait until the blue lights on dash turn off) this will give you kwh available. I would be hesitant to take a car with less than 66 ahr and 22 kwh available.

you are VERY unlikely to see 67.36 simply because the car has to have been fast charged a few times or driven a significant (more than say 25 or so) distance recently. keep in mind, the temps will also lower the numbers a bit especially if its very cold

I also agree 100% with everything Dave just said.
- Bummer on your onboard diagnostic tool not working with your smartphone. I had to fall back on my old phone due to a broken screen, and I am having trouble getting the "new" phone to work with the obdii I purchased.

As stjohn and others have said, there is nothing wrong with certain 2013s with an Ahr reading of about 60-61 when new. The extra energy is 'hidden' inside the VLBW band. Using Leafspy I always find that below about 70% SOC my dash % reading is about 8-9% lower than LeafSpy. Once my GIDs get down around 15 (VLBW comes on at 25) or so they start to go very very slowly and that extra 8-9% shows up. My guess is Nissan decided to have the software be overly pessimistic so that people will start looking for a charging station sooner, resulting in fewer people who run out.

michapok said:

I picked up my Leaf (manufactured 4/13) in July 2013 and have been tracking Ahr since Sept 2013. I started around 60-61 and am now in the 58-59 region after a year and change. I live in downstate NY so summer avg hi temp is 80's, winter average hi temp is right around freezing. Here is the data I have: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HhaOjMdHGDm2EbDt5yHog9rMALddIIQzEhlh6Dpb35A/edit#gid=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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I've been recording this manually, but your posting inspired me to want to get the data from my Leaf Spy logs. So I wrote a script to extra fully-charged events from the logs. I've posted it in the Leaf Spy thread.