Have B Mode as Deflaut Drive Mode

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minispeed said:
nerys said:
That all makes sense with a mechanical car. It does not make sense with an electtonic car where they can do exactly what you say and then procide a simply menu option to let others do what they want.


The EPA states that the car must be tested in the default mode when the car is turned on, no menus selected no buttons pressed.

EPA rules apply to Tesla as well and they are allowed to have menu options to control regen (ignore the comment about range).

2013_tesla_model-s_fint_lt_80813_600.jpg
 
dhanson865 said:
minispeed said:
nerys said:
That all makes sense with a mechanical car. It does not make sense with an electtonic car where they can do exactly what you say and then procide a simply menu option to let others do what they want.


The EPA states that the car must be tested in the default mode when the car is turned on, no menus selected no buttons pressed.

EPA rules apply to Tesla as well and they are allowed to have menu options to control regen (ignore the comment about range).

2013_tesla_model-s_fint_lt_80813_600.jpg


I would hazard a guess (yes just a guess so it could be wrong) that the standard / low is more like the drive / eco in the leaf which can be left to be the default. B mode is different as it maximizes the electronic braking and to do that they may have programed it to operate at different efficency levels that do affect range.

Yes it's an opinion and yes it may be wrong, but all the other people saying that they could have easily made B mode come on by default are also giving an opinion that may be wrong as well.
 
Not really. the "fact" that they could have easily made it a default option is a fact not an opinion.

it is quite literally a few lines of computer code. would likely take the programmer all of 30 minutes to add the code line in place.

well about 30 seconds to add the default option code and 29.5 minutes to add the UI infrastructure to make it user selectable.

not trying to be a dick but I do not recognize "agree to disagree" type solutions :)
 
nerys said:
Not really. the "fact" that they could have easily made it a default option is a fact not an opinion.

it is quite literally a few lines of computer code. would likely take the programmer all of 30 minutes to add the code line in place.

well about 30 seconds to add the default option code and 29.5 minutes to add the UI infrastructure to make it user selectable.

not trying to be a dick but I do not recognize "agree to disagree" type solutions :)

Or they could have made it a simple dealer recoding option done using the Nissan Consult diagnostic
tool like other OEM vehicle manufactures do for some features, e.g. auto-locking at speeds > 15 MPH.
My Nissan Xterra had auto-locking which I disliked and asked the dealer to disable it which was done
via their diagnostic tool.
 
I am a practiced ecodriver, and I know that coasting is better than always having regen. Regen is fine - when you need to slow down. Regen is much better than friction brakes, obviously.

But when the default is coasting, you learn to accelerate less and then coast and then use some regen to slow to a stop.
 
nerys said:
Not really. the "fact" that they could have easily made it a default option is a fact not an opinion.

it is quite literally a few lines of computer code. would likely take the programmer all of 30 minutes to add the code line in place.

well about 30 seconds to add the default option code and 29.5 minutes to add the UI infrastructure to make it user selectable.

not trying to be a dick but I do not recognize "agree to disagree" type solutions :)


Ok this will be the last that I will post on this. Since the OP started with the topic of B being default because of perception that it allows you to get more range. If, (as stated by the others in the post who want it, not me since I don't think it will give you better range) B gives a difference of range and that shows up in the EPA tests then it by my understanding of EPA rules it cannot be something that comes on by default when you turn the car on unless they use the B mode in the test to determine the number on the EPA sticker.

Unless you know a Nissan engineer who worked on the car and you want to share his contact or you want to go to the trouble of digging up all the EPA test rules and quoting them it is unfair to say that you know it is a fact that they could program the car like that.

Maybe it would be better to say that they should have designed the mechanicals of the shifter closer to the prius that has a different gate for B and D that the user can select on start up them selves, or a 2 sec hold feature that engages B.


I just kept posting to allow new people who read this to know that B does not give any magical range so don't start using it. Yes some people have learned to carve wood with a chainsaw but don't look at their carvings and think well a chainsaw is the best way to do that.
 
Ac in a gas car dramatically effect fuel economy

Yet I can on my command have the ac on or off by default when I turn on the car.

Nough said on that.

As for more range. It does give you more range.

More than the battery by default can give? No.

But more than "you" would get otherwise? Absolutely possible. by reducing your losses.

Oddly enough nissan explains it best. Go watch the nissan leaf volcano video.
 
DarrenG said:
lorenfb said:
There have been many times where B Mode & driving care (with ECO) have gained extra needed miles to reach a charging station. If regen (B Mode) had no value, then just coast and use the brakes always. Let the brakes always 'burn-up' the kinetic energy.
But coasting may well be better than gaining regen. Regen is great but it isn't a wholly efficient use for all cases. And you still have regen available in non ECO or B-Modes so there is no 'burn-up' of kinetic energy. As I understand them, these modes simply bring regen in earlier and prevent any coasting, is that always a benefit? I don't think it's as clear cut to claim they are always the better option.

A careful driver, using the best hypermiling techniques should be able too extract just as much milage from a Leaf in normal modes. Feathering the throttle to coast where possible, and using regen where unavoidable is the bets option surely?
Apparently you don't drive freeways in L.A., you frequently have to come to a complete stop anyway, so getting the regeneration from B mode is really helpful. I have about a 20 mile commute and there have been times where I actually have had the battery percentage be higher than when I left by using the B mode. Only by a percentage point or two, but still higher and yes I know that isn't always the normal, but it is a good example of why it would be nice to be able to set B mode as the default drive mode.
 
minispeed said:
nerys said:
Not really. the "fact" that they could have easily made it a default option is a fact not an opinion.

it is quite literally a few lines of computer code. would likely take the programmer all of 30 minutes to add the code line in place.

well about 30 seconds to add the default option code and 29.5 minutes to add the UI infrastructure to make it user selectable.

not trying to be a dick but I do not recognize "agree to disagree" type solutions :)


Ok this will be the last that I will post on this. Since the OP started with the topic of B being default because of perception that it allows you to get more range. If, (as stated by the others in the post who want it, not me since I don't think it will give you better range) B gives a difference of range and that shows up in the EPA tests then it by my understanding of EPA rules it cannot be something that comes on by default when you turn the car on unless they use the B mode in the test to determine the number on the EPA sticker.

Unless you know a Nissan engineer who worked on the car and you want to share his contact or you want to go to the trouble of digging up all the EPA test rules and quoting them it is unfair to say that you know it is a fact that they could program the car like that.

Maybe it would be better to say that they should have designed the mechanicals of the shifter closer to the prius that has a different gate for B and D that the user can select on start up them selves, or a 2 sec hold feature that engages B.


I just kept posting to allow new people who read this to know that B does not give any magical range so don't start using it. Yes some people have learned to carve wood with a chainsaw but don't look at their carvings and think well a chainsaw is the best way to do that.
As I stated in my last post, it really will depend on where you live, for me, B mode definitely can increase my range, I have gotten from my work to home with a higher percentage and more miles in range than when I left work for the day by using the B mode in our insane stop and go traffic.

And from a technical standpoint, they can program it to allow B mode as the default, based on your post, there may be legal reasons they can't, but from a technical standpoint, it is a computer, so it is simple to program it to do what you want.
 
NeilBlanchard said:
I am a practiced ecodriver, and I know that coasting is better than always having regen. Regen is fine - when you need to slow down. Regen is much better than friction brakes, obviously.

But when the default is coasting, you learn to accelerate less and then coast and then use some regen to slow to a stop.
Yes, if you are in areas where this works, but if you live in areas with stop and go traffic, you have to come to a stop virtually every time you slow down anyway, so coasting does no good in that circumstance, as you still would not have momentum to get going again.
 
I have about a 20 mile commute and there have been times where I actually have had the battery percentage be higher than when I left by using the B mode. Only by a percentage point or two, but still higher and yes I know that isn't always the normal, but it is a good example of why it would be nice to be able to set B mode as the default drive mode.

This can only be true if you are driving downhill. It is literally against the laws of physics for it to be true in any other case - except for maybe being pushed by traffic behind you... ;-)
 
You say it is impossible and then you explain why it's possible that's just silly many of us have a commute where one way is more downhill than the other where this is quite plausible

Although I think it's just higher efficiency not extra power and the gom is just confused

I want B mode for the higher regen

No other reason it's silly not to use higher Regen to save my brakes when I have it available it's also annoying that my 2016 is slower than my 2012 I always have to shift it 3 times to get it into B mode or I have to shift once wait a five-count and then shift again into B mode

Very annoying it's a minor thing but very annoying I wish the damn thing would just default to B mode
 
You say it is impossible and then you explain why it's possible that's just silly many of us have a commute where one way is more downhill than the other where this is quite plausible

No, I wrote that it's only possible in one kind of driving. When you are driving downhill to work and getting a net gain in charge, then it's gravity helping you out, not B mode. The above is sort of like claiming that blasting the stereo increases range, but forgetting to mention that you are driving downhill when you do it.
 
No it's B mode not gravity gravity just accelerates the car and you have two ways of dealing with that increase region to slow down and convert that into power or use the brakes and convert it into heat

B mode does that not gravity gravity's just the way it works but gravity alone does nothing
 
You can ignore it if you want but physics is physics you can recover some of your acceleration energy in regeneration or you can burn it away in your brakes as waste Heat and wear out your brakes faster too

B mode permits a higher level of regeneration which allows you to use the brakes less as the Regeneration slows you down more.

Why in the world would you argue with me about that? What am I missing here?
 
cmwade77 said:
NeilBlanchard said:
I am a practiced ecodriver, and I know that coasting is better than always having regen. Regen is fine - when you need to slow down. Regen is much better than friction brakes, obviously.

But when the default is coasting, you learn to accelerate less and then coast and then use some regen to slow to a stop.
Yes, if you are in areas where this works, but if you live in areas with stop and go traffic, you have to come to a stop virtually every time you slow down anyway, so coasting does no good in that circumstance, as you still would not have momentum to get going again.

I have been ecodriving for at least 10 years, and I can assure you that coasting is better - in particular - in stop and go conditions. You accelerate LESS (that you would otherwise) and then you coast. It becomes a challenge to never stop, or use the brakes. And if you look at what we have learned from traffic studies, this kind of driving actually reduces traffic.

Jackrabbit starts and abrupt stops make traffic worse, and they use a lot of energy.

Regen can NEVER regain everything you invest in getting the car moving, and so when you keep rolling, even just barely, you save energy.
 
nerys said:
You can ignore it if you want but physics is physics you can recover some of your acceleration energy in regeneration or you can burn it away in your brakes as waste Heat and wear out your brakes faster too

B mode permits a higher level of regeneration which allows you to use the brakes less as the Regeneration slows you down more.

Why in the world would you argue with me about that? What am I missing here?

The brake pedal has regen integrated, so B mode has no advantage. Light braking is all regen, and since you can modulate it, it is arguably better than B.
 
Your data is illogically applied.

Regen will always recover some of the energy use to accelerate. That is its explicitly designed function and you can clearly abd umbigiously see it on your information display.

I have been eco driving for well over 20 years well over 50,000 miles a year. Before my leaf indrove and still have my 94 xfi that i net 62mpg from yearly average and i have sustained 70mpg for over 400 miles.

Stock.

We are not talking about coasting. We are talking about braking. So the superior efficiency of coasting is completely irrelevant to this discussion at least my part of it.

Between braking and regen only regen is superior. Its more efficient both in energy and maintenance.

If i must brake i want as much of that braking going into regeneration versus brake rotors and pads as waste heat.

That simple. Coasting is not a good option for me as a delivery driver. I habe to brake. So I want regen instead of wasted heat in my brakes.
 
I disagree. When i lightly brake in D versus B there is a significant difference in regen. Its like there is a software cap on regen amount in D mode that is particularly nasty when cold. Almost no regen at all.

On top of this in D mode i cant feather the speed controller since i have to move my foot to the brake pedal.

In b mode i keep my foot on the acceleration pedal and feather it to control the amount of regen versus coast down for each individual stopping scenario.

I can not do this in d mode since i have to move my foot to the brake pedal.
 
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